Border has a few world flight records from what I recall. Have you sent them a message?

Where are the flight championships? Is is National or World?

 

You live in Joshua Tree now. That is one of my favorite places to rock climb. I did my first climb there about 42 years ago when there were only 72 listed routes. Now there must be over 10,000 or 15,000. I have not checked the most recent guidebook.

 

Yes, I live in Joshua Tree. I moved here in the beginning of the month. It has been so hot lately, I have to do all my shooting at night. The flight championships has people around the world to compete. I am putting a lot of time of getting ready for this event. I got offered to shoot some flight bows from people who build them.

 

From what I know Border already hold a lot of flight records, all with production limbs.

Sid has said there is a point where building a heavier limb doesn't gain anything. Clearly in the world of flight there is much more to be gained from riser design, arrow design and tune judging by what has set records in the past.

-Grant

 

I agree with Grant

It ain't alway about the weight when it comes to performance

Send them an email

 

But I am going to be shooting in the unlimited class, a higher poundage is required there since the people in that class shoot heavy and short light arrows. But for women, there are only unlimited, 50# and 35# for field recurve. That is why I wish they will make 100# for short draw, it will make a difference only in flight archery. You guys know I will not shoot a light bow. I found out I have an advantage, a short draw and high poundage I have a good chance with breaking records with the right heavy bow and a short light arrow. People always try to tell me to shoot lighter, I am not shooting light and they are not flight archers. Flight archery is very different from what my mentor told me. Having a long draw will not brake records here, because it will add more weight to the arrow. People are going to be drawing them short. Because I have a short draw, I be comfortable there and take it to my normal anchor. Border bows if not made heaver will only put guys in the 70# class and not the unlimted. I shoot strictly unlimited. I would love an unlimited class bow from Border, it would be awesome.

 

This is one of the reason why I got into flight archery, I can shoot as far as I can with a heavy bow, a place I can be myself. It is a free country and I have a right to shoot heavy. I worked very hard to get were I am at. This is flight archery, it is different there and this is unlimited class.

Grant, ok, you think light bows are better. Come to Utah in Sept and join the unlimited class with a 40# bow, you be competing against guys who are shooting over 100#.

 

Have you emailed Border yet to see what their ideas are on the subject? or what they can do for you in building a limb to your specs/needs??

 

They will not do it, it is not going to fall in the unlimited class that I will be competing in. They only build up to 70#, but that is a long draw. I have a short draw, so I would not even get 70# out of it. It would end up falling in one of the limited weight classes. It would of been awesome if they did make limbs for an unlimited class bow.

 

Have you looked at the womens records for teamusa archery flight archery? Most of the 50# are further or within a few yards of the unlimited. I think there is more to this game then who can pull the most weight. You will be shooting longbow?

Modern longbow unlimited = 366yds
Modern longbow 50lb = 383yds
Modern longbow 35lb = 320yds

English longbow unlimited = 269yds
English longbow 50lb = 271yds
English longbow 35lb = 261yds

http://www.teamusa.org/usa-archery/events/flight-archery

 

I am going to be shooting primitive, field recurve and flight bow, all unlimited. Why you give a care if I shoot heavy or not? I am shooting heavy you like it or not. Give it up right now, you not going to convince me to shoot lighter. I want to use my strength to my advantage and break a record the next person going to have a hard time with. Not many woman can shoot a heavy bow.

 

Why not start building your own bows? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being dead serious.

One of the early reason I got serious about building my own bows was that I could build them to whatever draw weight I wanted.

 

I do not know how, I will have to learn. But it would be hard to build a recurve at home made of carbon and foam. One of my friends is going to show me how to make bows, he makes reflex deflex longbows. I want to make them the weight I want because not many make them the way I want it.

 

If you read what I wrote rather than having your head stuffed so far up your own backside you'd realize why what is written on the limb for poundage doesn't matter for flight archery.


You throw a worse tantrum then a 3 year old. Unless you make a serious attitude adjustment you will find yourself without anyone willing to help and quite frankly I don't think you have the technical knowledge to be a competitive flight shooter.

Grant

 

If you read what I wrote rather than having your head stuffed so far up your own backside you'd realize why what is written on the limb for poundage doesn't matter for flight archery.

You throw a worse tantrum then a 3 year old. Unless you make a serious attitude adjustment you will find yourself without anyone willing to help and quite frankly I don't think you have the technical knowledge to be a competitive flight shooter.

Grant

You do not have to be a jerk to me. What is your problem?I do not want your advice, it goes against my goals and I did not ask for it. Get it through your head, I DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT LIGHT BOWs!!!!!!!! GET IT!!!!!! I was just making a post about something wish was made and you and that other guy ruined it. I am sick and tired of people like you telling me what to shoot. Ask April Moon, ask Marlon Torres, bow design, draw weight, arrow weight and arrow length does make a difference. I am new to flight archery and I am still learning, but I am only asking advice from a select few who does flight archery in unlimited class. I talk to my friend who really do flight archery and he understands what I am trying to do, he shoots bows over 150#. He is my mentor, but I am not giving names because you most likely cut him down too. You ever heard of unwelcome advice, that is what you are doing. I did not ask for your advice, when I want it I will ask. I get like this because people had cut me down over and over and over every time I was at the range when they found out I shot heavy bows. It gets old and tiring and I just have a lot tolerance for jerks. I am a very nice person, I just do not like to be harassed. People have no respect for heavy bow shooters, I will defend myself and my brethern. You anger me enough.

 

Nobody is telling you what to shoot. They are discussing all possible options.
You really do not need to be so defensive here.

 

There's a "magic" combination for the flight shooting and it's not 100# or "as heavy as you can get..use your strength to your advantage etc" that's all grant is saying.


So do want to win OR shoot the heaviest bow you can? It won't be the same bow.

There are plenty of people who can shoot heavy bows besides yourself and the reason they arent on the board isNT because they're not pulling enough weight.

try being a bit more modest and less argumentative and you'll pribably get some great advice and help.

Again, no one is saying you can't shoot heavy. What they are saying is , that surprisingly, going super heavy doesn't automatically increase your distances in flight. There's more to it than that.

 

good luck with your tournament

 

Just a heads up fellas, but TeamRetic has some range of Autism and prone to emotional outbursts and bouts of anger.
What you see as angry and argumentative is often outside of her control.

Best of luck with your flight archery. We all hope you do well and hope you learn from the experience.

 

Not an excuse, that comes from a parent who has a child on the spectrum.

Grant

 

Interesting reading . . . .

Found here: http://arco-iris.com/George/alavekiu.htm

John

 

Hey Alicia,

We are friends so I hope you can hear what others are saying. I respect your ability to shoot heavy bows and others do as well. Folks were simply noting that the weight of the bow is only one aspect of flight shooting. I don't know squat about flight shooting but some members here have world records. As well, Border has built bows in the past that shot some of those records so they certainly know a thing or two about designing for flight competition.

I think the basic question is what would an unlimited class, world record capable bow look like given your stregnth and DL?

Rasyad

 

Hey Alicia,

We are friends so I hope you can hear what others are saying. I respect your ability to shoot heavy bows and others do as well. Folks were simply noting that the weight of the bow is only one aspect of flight shooting. I don't know squat about flight shooting but some members here have world records. As well, Border has built bows in the past that shot some of those records so they certainly know a thing or two about designing for flight competition.

I think the basic question is what would an unlimited class, world record capable bow look like given your stregnth and DL?

Rasyad

This is what I know so far that I learn from my friend. The design of the bow, draw weight, arrow weight and length of arrow effects how far it can go. The arrow shape makes a difference too. A flight arrow looks different and they have small fetching to cut down on drag. I will have to talk to my friend more, since I have a lot of questions. Flight archery is new to me and this year is to learn the sport, next year is when the real fun begins. I am putting a lot of time and energy into this.

 

I'm talking about the limits of the technology which Border uses and how that relates to performance.

Have I once mentioned draw weight or length in this thread or ever as it relates to flight shooting?

Your friend must be very patient.

 

The post was about I wish Border made a bow for the unlimited class, a bow that is 100# at 24". Also that bow needs to take a beating to shoot a flight arrow. Maybe they cannot make such a bow, a bow of my dreams. I am shooting in unlimited class and only focus on the records in the class I am competing in, not outside of it. Me and my friend get along well and never had an argument. He shoots 150# and over bows, so he understands my goals and what I do. You do not know me at all. This is why I like talk in voice, text has no emotion and people can interpreted it in many ways. It is easy for me to misunderstand others in text because there is no emotion. I also been very grouchy lately because I have to deal with over 100 degree heat everyday since I moved here.

 

Ok so Border won't make you a set of limbs that you desire... There are beaucoup bowyers nationwide that may be willing to make you limbs in the length and weight that you want. Contact some of them and see what they say.

 

Just a thought and I'm not a bowyer so this is just thinking out loud. Maybe border doesn't make them that heavy because they aren't as efficient at the ultra heavy weights. Those big ol hooks carry more mass than a smaller curve. I wonder if you get into real heavy weights if those hooks and the extra mass would start bogging down the performance. I know very heavy bows will reach a point where there is little performance gain for the extra effort. Perhaps Border has found that point and limits builds to stay within acceptable performance.

Could be a durability thing too.

Either way, hope you find something that will help you achieve your goals.

 

Just a thought and I'm not a bowyer so this is just thinking out loud. Maybe border doesn't make them that heavy because they aren't as efficient at the ultra heavy weights. Those big ol hooks carry more mass than a smaller curve. I wonder if you get into real heavy weights if those hooks and the extra mass would start bogging down the performance. I know very heavy bows will reach a point where there is little performance gain for the extra effort. Perhaps Border has found that point and limits builds to stay within acceptable performance.

Could be a durability thing too.

Either way, hope you find something that will help you achieve your goals.

That would be a big problem if the hooks slow down the speed because of mass and end up like my Kassai Bear bow. My 110# Kassai Bear has heavy siyahs and because of that, it has poor cast. I would never want to take that bow to a flight archery tournament. It would be a poor performer. That bow is just a fun shooting bow, I do not use it for tournaments.

 

Weight could also be limited by riser strength for ILF. There are a lot of ILF risers that are not rated that high. In fact, lower end ILF risers are rated as low as 35 pounds. I think some of the hunting oriented risers may be designed for more. And if the limbs become less efficient, that energy has to go somewhere, and that means the riser. That will put more stress on the riser. A beefier riser would weigh more which is not want Olympic style shooters want, and that is what the ILF spec was developed for. Maybe Sid will see this. He knows more about this than all the rest of us combined.

 

If I had such a bow if Border was able to make it, I would not want it as an IFL. My Morrison riser can take a lot of weight, but not unlimited class bow wright. I would want such a monster be a one piece bow. I would not trust ILF at weights like that. If it was was IFL, the riser would be very solid and heavy. I am shooting only 6 arrows and that is it, so weight of the riser is not going to be an issue.

 

If I shot Primitive div I would be looking at a Turkish horn/sinew flight bows, those bows have always appealed to me.

 

Maybe you could speak to Jim Belcher at Sky. I believe (I may be wrong) he's made heavy draw weight limbs for Simon Stanley here in the UK

 

Think you are correct Phil and I recall seeing a video of him shooting it. Might have been somebody else, but think I recognize the name.

Here it is. Guy cant hit anything with it, but I sense the fun is in the feeling and not in hitting what your aiming at.

Hank you mention limb efficiency and physical weight of the limb. Since weight of the arrow has to increase as limb poundage goes up, there must be a point of diminishing returns? I recall reading post by Sid that said bows designed for flight are not what you would shoot for anything else. Very unstable but when all is right they zip an arrow. I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of 200lb bow drawn 10" versus a 100lb drawn 20". There has to be a bunch of mathematical calculations done long before the first arrow is shot to know the proper equipment needed to obtain the goal. Im puzzled why the 50lb class has a longer distance record in several cases and why that person didnt walk over to unlimited and grab that record as well?

 

Phil , as usual , is correct.
Jim has made some big weights for Mr Stanley. He made him a Union Jack that was from memory, 148#'s ........