I have been struggling with this same thought for ibo trd. I have these feeling like I want the fastest limb, but find myself already having a high nock point just to get point on down. I've shot my best scores to date with $129 regular black max limbs, yet have tried sky's high end limb as well as uukhas ex1, and sf ultpro's. My "want" list has me dreaming of trying hex limbs or the kstorms, but a reality check says anything would probably be fine. Guys have stated they have shot great indoor scores with axioms, were only talking another 10yds for ibo.

 

I like ILF because they are pretty much universal. I can get pretty much any IFL risers at different lengths and have different bows if I had 2 risers and 3 limbs.

 

My Kaya limbs not that expensive are carbon foam and my friend's $800 Hoyt limbs I really feel a difference. Do not forget about Borders, they really make a difference. I would not spend that much unless they are Borders and they make me the weight I want.

 

Cars are just the same
budget hatch backs are just that. 4 people A to B. Job done.
15k

Mid market family car.
25k 4 people A to B with a bit of leg room. Job done.
little better corrosion resistance. Little smoother ride.

Top end family car.
35k
4 people A to B job done.
Might get rear wheel drive to please the driving geeks.

70k.
better design all round. Quiter. Smoother. With all the bells and whistles.
but at the end of the day. 4 people A to B.

190k.
again 4 people from A to B.
but... where do you want the engine... 4 or 2 wheel drive. Front or rear.
V8 engine. Full adjustable suspension with a adjustable clutch for smooth or race modes.

Your choice.

No big revalations there.
what i wouldnt want to do is spend big bucks on mid level technology.

But what you do get on the 190k car as time has shown. ABS was first introduced on top end cars.
as was Sat Nav.
the latest bently Wrath. Uses sat nav to hold a gear for an up and coming bend. Or hill. The top end mercs will stop fuelling one bank of cylindars to save fuel when the power is not needed.
the merc will also lift a wheel for a up and coming pothole. Or even lift an axel when it meets a speed bump to give you a smoother ride.

Its possible to get less than 1lb per inch at full draw. With totally trashes the 2lbs per inch rule.
Its possible to take the big recurves are unstable concept and throw it out the window.
well. With enough money you dont have to drive round potholes anymore....

But it still gets you from a to b.
it depends on your "Value" in life. And value depends on where your sat.

 

Magic body control coming to a mid priced car near you soon...
aka ( 2019)

 

Personally I really like being part of and supporting efforts that are trying to lead the way in innovation for better performance.

I can't afford Wilson Alexandria XLF speakers ($200K!) or that Mercedes with "body control" in your YT video (comments there were apt: "I'd sell a kidney for an S class" reply: "Too bad it costs 4 kidneys"). But with some sacrifices I can afford be part of innovation in archery, even though I know my skills are far behind what I can take advantage of with such equipment (though in other sports good equipment has given me confidence and inspired me to raise my game).

 

I do agree in principle Sid and obviously you have a dog in this so I understand your point of view. I have tested and shot limbs from most makers and in most price ranges and I maintain that any perceived advantage of limbs once you break the $500 barrier is so small that 99% of archers wouldn't even know it. Beyond that it just becomes a choice thing I think.


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I do agree in principle Sid and obviously you have a dog in this so I understand your point of view. I have tested and shot limbs from most makers and in most price ranges and I maintain that any perceived advantage of limbs once you break the $500 barrier is so small that 99% of archers wouldn't even know it. Beyond that it just becomes a choice thing I think.

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up to 600 dollars, the 2lbs per inch rule still applies.
up to 600 dollars 99% of limbs are a considerable proportion of glass in them
up to 600 dollars and you get standard Earl Hoyt Geometry in 99% of options.

no wonder you dont see much difference.

Its almost like saying i cant see any differences in these two ISO standrad products.

lets take 2 products, make them out of the same materials fromt he same suppliers..., to the same design remit, and put them on the same chassis...

Da-DAAAA.
what do ya know. same product...

now for the next fun aspect to all this.

if limbs cost 3000 dollars, there would be a billion times more innovation in them.

a prime example is mountain bikes.
2500 dollars of NOT the most expensive
http://www.jensonusa.com/Frames/Yeti-SB-6C-Frame-2015

there are LOTS of new start up companies.
there are lots of design ideas being tested
there are complete material changes. construction methods being turned on thier heads.
why.... cos its worth it.

now... why is target archery still using Earl Hoyts geometry?
what happened to the Wilson Borthers?
What happened to all these companies that were making target bows?
Bear?
Yamaha
Nishi?
Marksman?
where did the market driven competion go and why are we left with Hoyt VS a few Korean companies? (almost identical to the Hoyts)
Why is W&Ws website mostly to do with outsourcing carbon moulding, and why are Samick not in most dealers these days?

the Innovation seems to be drying up?
W&W seems to be diversifing.... what was the last innovation in W&Ws limbs?

 

I guess we all have a tendency to justify our personal choices and decisions and being no exception myself?...here's my thoughts based on what I've experienced having owned and shot the following ILF limbsets...

Both my SF Gold Form Standards (glass/foam) and slightly more expensive SF Elite (carbon/foam) felt pretty much the same...nothing earth shattering and I believe the glass/foam actually felt smoother drawing...but my $169 Samick Universal glass/wood limbs seemed just as as snappy and a touch smoother than either of the SF limb sets...with Tradtech BM'S right in the hunt with either and all in the sub $300 range most well under $200.

Moving on up?...I've only owned 3 other more expensive limb sets and all by Sky Archery...the Skyjacks and XGM series are both $350 glass/maple...both are definitely a notch above anything previously mentioned above with an obvious increase in build quality...but my DblCF/Boo core TR7'S ran $630 and are markedly more stable than any limbs I've owned.

Paying hundreds upon hundreds more than that for a few more FPS?...not me...if I want more speed I'll buy a compound or drop a grain of GPP....but I value "smooth"...so the latest trend in expensive big hooks is off the menu for me.

 

Accuracy wise you'd be hard pressed to do better than a used set of winnex for 2-3 hundred bucks. But having shot Hex-6 and Hex-7 I'm addicted to the feel of the limb. Yes I get a bit more performance but as a long draw archer performance isn't as important to me as the total lack of stack that I get from the Hex series. I still have and like my Winnex but even on a 27 inch riser they stack at my draw length.

Matt

 

IMO, we tend to get too caught up in the ILF limb race. There's certainly little need to spend $400-500 or more to get good performance, win 30yd tournaments, or kill game animals. From a competition standpoint, I suspect most of the top shooters (IBO, NFAA, ASA, FITA, etc.) would probably give the rest of the field a spanking with nothing more than a set of $90 Axioms. It's all about the Indian yanking the string.

For the rest of us duffers, let's face it, we derive satisfaction in owning nice equipment and there's nothing at all wrong with that. It all comes down to how wide you want to open your wallet.

 

IMO, we tend to get too caught up in the ILF limb race. There's certainly little need to spend $400-500 or more to get good performance, win 30yd tournaments, or kill game animals. From a competition standpoint, I suspect most of the top shooters (IBO, NFAA, ASA, FITA, etc.) would probably give the rest of the field a spanking with nothing more than a set of $90 Axioms. It's all about the Indian yanking the string.

For the rest of us duffers, let's face it, we derive satisfaction in owning nice equipment and there's nothing at all wrong with that. It all comes down to how wide you want to open your wallet.

And the technology trickles down to ther product ranges too...

 

We don't have spokespeople from Hoyt, W&W, MK etc here so Sid is a good devils advocate, thank you Sid.
My point is not about geometry, manufacturer or glass content, it's about what the 99% will get out of them. If $500 more buys you 10% more performance, ok, but how many guys who lay out $800+ on limbs shoot consistently enough to get the best from them? Matt does for sure but be honest, with poor to average form and sketchy release will that $900 pair really yield better results?


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We don't have spokespeople from Hoyt, W&W, MK etc here so Sid is a good devils advocate, thank you Sid.
My point is not about geometry, manufacturer or glass content, it's about what the 99% will get out of them. If $500 more buys you 10% more performance, ok, but how many guys who lay out $800+ on limbs shoot consistently enough to get the best from them? Matt does for sure but be honest, with poor to average form and sketchy release will that $900 pair really yield better results?

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at unmarked distances, speed helps alot.
and if the bow isnt sensitive, then id sooner have the faster one.

not one for wanting to chase the light arrow mass either.
as you can tell, Top target shooters dont shoot ACEs, they shoot X10s. 8.5gpp is more stable then 6.5gpp.

 

ALOT of limb hype is having to have the latest and greatest without any real evidence or proof that they will get you points.

I've shot several good sets of limbs and AT MY DISTANCES I cant see where the $900 limb has any advantage over the $400 set...yeah they may draw just a touch smoother but IMHO they don't get me any points.

If I was consistently shooting out to 70 or 90m then I think the more efficient limbs would matter more.


I'm shooting the best limb I've ever shot which are the Win Win WiaWis, however speed sometimes can be a hindrance when your gap shooting. Ive been blowing high on almost all my shots because of their performance..I've had to switch to 125 grain tips with a 33 grain insert to get my gaps back to where they're much easier for me to control.

Hope this makes sense.

Dewayne Martin

 

While I haven't reached the legendary status of some of the limb aficionados here I have experimented with a lot of the entry to mid-range limbs out there in the past three years. I have yet to see any that just turned me off from the get-go, actually some of the low end limbs shoot surprisingly well these days and with almost the same chrono numbers I've seen from some of the ones that cost twice as much.

That being said, would I love to have/try some of the top super-curve limbs out there? Absodoggonelutely!!

 

I feel I've reached the point of superb performance all the way around for a $300 set of Kstorms. They have already outperformed a set costing twice that much. So it's not about how much you spend, it's about what you spend it on. So the theory of you get what you pay for, does not apply to all limbs. I cannot justify 3X the amount of the Kstorms for ANY limb, but that's just my budget, and my reality check. Just with everything in life there is a positive and a negative to everything, and that includes ALL limbs. It comes down to what you are willing to accept. I do know this, if a limb feels good, has the performance you need, then spend more time at the butts than online hoping to buy more points.

 

I have high end and mid range and low end limbs ...
I find through scientific testing that I am amazingly crapola with any limb ...

 

Thanks Ben!!! I needed that!!! :lol:

 

In my mind just because you can measure a difference doesn't mean its a positive.
You can measure stored energy and TS, but objectively determining whether the changes made to achieve them has a negative effect on their ease of use is more challenging. I know for me the trade off isn't worth the performance.

If we really wanted to compare limbs to cars the Axiom would be a Boxter, the Premium a base 911, the Ult Pro a GT3 RS and the Hex 7 a 911 Turbo. None of them are really slouches.

Grant

 

In my mind just because you can measure a difference doesn't mean its a positive.

Grant

Exactly Grant!...and from the numbers and DFC's I'm reading and seeing posted?...it's almost as though everything is a trade off and while there may be a little ultra expensive snack here and there?...there is no "Free Lunch"...just different tastes and flavors...and I prefer mine consistently smooth and stable.

 

For ME speed trumps feel etc. We shoot unmarked to distances best measured with a GPS. Problematic for me as have been known to be 25 yds off on a 20 yd shot.

Bought some used expensive speedy limbs and some new slower mid range limbs. Shoot the spendy limbs at 7.4gpp [as per manufacturers recommendation] and the mids at 5.5gpp [ manufacturer is happy].

Confidence with the cheaper limbs and lighter arrows is better and arrow speed faster. 70yd PO SWing gives me a workable gap at 80yds.

Pleased that spendy limbs were used!

 

Judging by the coments. There are two observations.
the low priced options are performing very well... just shows the trickle down tech is working a treat.
yhe flip side is that the top end isnt getting much investment...

Vabowdog.
Win&Wins product has always been top notch.
once they started putting cross weave in the Inno limb we knew the ILF hex limb needed to be released. Same time as David Sousa was starting to push the DAS risers.
it was because our TXG had an equal in our view. We needed something else.

The TXG has in essesnce the same construction as the extreme BF. UD carbon. Cross weave carbon. S2 Glass fiber.
This TX geometry is now the CV limb which has the hex6 laminate.
Yes. Those new limbs look good.

 

I haven't shot or experienced many limbs, but my 3 favorite were Samick BF Extreme, Winex, and SF UP. All purchased for $300ish and shoot way better then me.

 

I am one of those folks that likes to tinker with different limbs, riser, and arrows.
I currently have two sets of Border Hex 6 BB2 limbs. I was not a fan of spending that much on limbs until I did.
For me, the feel of the limbs, the reduced draw weight gain over the last few inches, and the extra speed made them desirable.
There are even more expensive limbs available but I am happy with these.
Heck, I would love a set of Hex 7 H, but right now they are beyond my financial reach.
If I had a chance to get a really good buy on a set of the more expensive limbs used, I might try them.
I have found that different limbs each have a feel and set of characteristics that make them the right choice for each individual. I know some folks don't like the feel of the carbon laminated limbs and only shoot wood cores.
Nothing wrong with that at all and that is how it should be.

 

At the end of the day, which limbs I shoot doesn't come down to charts, graphs, infomercials or who endorses what. It comes down to what's on my score card. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

how did you find the limbs that score best for you?

what criteria did you use to narrow down your options till you found the set you settled on?

or did you buy every single set and try them?

 

And that's my point Jason, it's about results. If you could up your points by 20% guaranteed by spending $900 on some limbs, you would consider it. The limbs you use are in that $400 to $500 slot and having seen you shoot, do pretty well. Would you really spend double that in the questionable hopes of buying more points. Everyone should shoot what they like or can afford but never feel you're at a disadvantage because you haven't blindly bought into a top priced set of limbs, you're not. Most of this countries top archers (exc Oly) shoot limbs in the $400 to $500 price range and do ok.


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Cal just averaged 9.75pnts a target, what limbs was he shooting?

 

I am soooo ! happy I bought SF elite+ (favorites) and ult pros when on sale at Alt for around $200AUD a while back. With appropriate arrows I just can't justify any other setup.
Btw paired with an el cheapo 23" Mybo riser, no stab or weights, perfect...for me.

 

When the Ult Pro limbs were current, LAS sold them for $479 so they fit perfectly in that range.
Maybe Mr Demmer will chime in on this, he's been known to experiment with the odd limb or ten [emoji16]

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I appreciate this conversation because I am in the boat of looking for limbs and wondering the trade off between price and performance for me, a back yard archer and hunter. I'm not shooting tourneys for score or anything but want a good limb for my buck. Reading on this site about what everyone is shooting can be a bit daunting.

From what I glean, I can most likely squeeze every bit it performance I am capable of out of a +/- $400 set of limbs, if I am reading your thoughts right.

 

I appreciate this conversation because I am in the boat of looking for limbs and wondering the trade off between price and performance for me, a back yard archer and hunter. I'm not shooting tourneys for score or anything but want a good limb for my buck. Reading on this site about what everyone is shooting can be a bit daunting.

From what I glean, I can most likely squeeze every bit it performance I am capable of out of a +/- $400 set of limbs, if I am reading your thoughts right.

That is exactly right sir.

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Cal was shooting Win Win Expowers that I bought used for $300.00. Im not sure if they were mine or his...if they're mine I feel I'm entitled to half of his winnings...lol..


Dewayne

 

Cal was shooting Win Win Expowers that I bought used for $300.00. Im not sure if they were mine or his...if they're mine I feel I'm entitled to half of his winnings...lol..

Dewayne

Dewayne I think you are wrong about Calvin's limbs. I believe they were a combination of swamp locust and ditch willow that he made himself. Someone as traditional as Calvin would never use carbon or aim.