I voted "Limb Bolts Bottomed Out" but only because I've always been under the impression that such reduces "Limb Slap" to a minimum however?...

this is from the perspective of me always attempting to get my ILF rigs shooting "as quietly as possible" with little too no regard given to other aspects such as draw feel, bow behavior and?...

"Overall Shoot-Ability"

where it's been brought to my attention that some of the top competitive archers feel that an ILF bow shoots best with the limb bolts backed off a bit and after thinking about it?...

I can see how that might be because a few turns off (2-3) would get the limbs rockers more toward center.

Hence my curiosity and my posting of this poll.

 

I let my setup decide how many turns I should do. Right now I have a bear mini mag riser and a set of medium XQ-1 limbs. They are 3 1/2 turns out and I have a 30" draw.

 

Bottomed out. Except for tillering adjustments.

Happy Thanksgiving

Mike

 

It really depends on the weight/length of limbs but I use the bolts to get to the limbs to my comfortable draw length and then minor adjustments for tuning. I'm pushing 30" too but right now using extra-long LB limbs on my MiniMag they're snugged and backed off a half turn.

With heavier or shorter limbs I may be out as much as 3-4 turns.

 

My option.

 

Wherever my arrow tunes best.


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I choose poundage to be close to min or couple of turns in, I've found in the past maxing the limbs makes them a little twitchy for my taste. I prefer to start at min setting and tune for best arrow flight from that point, it's rare that I'm more than a 2-3 turns in from min bolt setting.

 

I agree with Steve, limb bolts out with a couple of turns. But wait, I agree with Steve because that is what I do, and how I have been told the best way is to setup ILF bows. I have no experimental evidence pointing to this as the best setup. Limb bolts out is not a selection in the poll which points out an experimental bias that is not surprising for a trad forum. There is a huge bias toward draw weight and not on performance, or possibly, an assumption that more draw weight leads to better performance. How many folks run their risers through various limb bolt positions to test stability and performance? When I was shooting FITA I was told that ILF risers shot better with limb bolts out. If you want more weight, you get a heavier limb. That was considered fairly common knowledge in the FITA world. I cannot even remember who first told me, but it was the way we set our bows up. It sounds like Steve has actually tested this. I have not gone so far as to tune my bow in various positions. I start out and make adjustments until I get the tune that I like, rather that starting in, or in the middle.

 

It sounds like Steve has actually tested this.

Yes I did and it was interesting, two different limbs worked out at the same draw weight one maxed and the other close to min setting, the min setting gave a much more forgiving shot.

When I tuned the K7's I started both ends of the scale i.e. maxed and again at min setting, they both ended up at the same sweet spot, 2 turns in from min setting.

 

My bows are easiest to shoot at minimum preload regardless of draw weight. However they also are slowest and require the highest brave height. For indoor I'm always at minimum but for outdoor I am willing to bias the setup towards a little more speed. I'm shooting long limbs now to get me a higher BH since that seems most forgiving of my lapses in bow arm stability.

Grant

 

It ends up where the dfc is optimized for my draw, weight is my last concern.

 

Nothing I have is bottomed out, if I had wanted a bolt on I would have gotten one, one or two turns our, or more to get my weight then tillering from there, always gives a more forgiving set up

 

"Sweet spot"

 

My indoor rig is bottomed out to get the poundage I needed to make the arrows fly well and give me a 20yd PO. I may try it with limbs 2# heavier and the limb bolts out to get the same poundage then report back if there are any changes to the bow.


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I try to tune for optimum arrow flight. My only observation is that I usually end up at least a couple turns out.

 

I thank you all for your participation and I've thanked you all for sharing "why" you go about this particular adjustment and all the different reasons why we do.

I have this poll up in 3 different forums...one is in a FITA forum and the other is in a traditional forum such as this one is and thusfar?....archers have claimed the following approach and reasons...

1. Some seek to attain max poundage (for max performance) while maintaining even tiller. (I like this approach in that it results in maximum static string tension)

2. Some use their ILF limb bolts as a poundage adjustment to fine tune the dynamic flight of their arrows. (I can buy into that only in that I've been guilty of that myself...and what I mean by that is now?...I see the value of placing the tune of the bow first and then tuning the arrows to the bow which often times can be achieved via inboard/outboard rest adjustment where no major changes need be taken on the arrows themselves...but I'm a believer in "Tuning The Arrow Too The Bow" and not the other way around)

3. Still others yet?...come at it from the other side...where their focus is not on "Max Performance" but to "Maximize Overall Shoot-Ability" of the bow. (Much like MoOse alluded to by using his limb bolt adjustment to finely dial in his bows DFC to his liking) and I subscribe to that can result in several positive conditions such as...

1. Improves the Feel of Draw: (much smoother and I find a touch more stable feeling to boot)

2. Can act much Like a Draw Check: where I'm finding that fine tuning this adjustment in this fashion can actually amplify the feeling of..."Knowing You're There"...at anchor by adjusting the stack point location too your DL.

3. Improved Release: Which in turn can aid pulling through the shot and resulting in a cleaner snap of the string off the fingers.

I started out with the limb bolts hammer down on this Gillo which resulted in a built-in tiller of 1/4" positive up top which felt great at first but when I replaced the 27oz Steel BB weight cover with a 10oz stab?...I needed to take tiller back too even which was achieved with 1 single turn off the lower limb bolt and today?...I took an extra turn off each and when I did?...I find the bow has lost a certain level of harshness at shots end and with it?....it also lost a noticeable amount of after shot vibration.

Note: Hank?...you know all of this is all your fault right? LOL! Thanks!

Again...I thank you all for your participation and have a Blessed, Happy & Safe Thanksgiving! L8R, Bill.

 

There wasn’t an option that fits what I do. I’m a gab shooter with a relatively low anchor so I like to use long arrows to reduce my gap, and I use the tiller bolts to obtain the best tune.

On my indoor rig (WF 25 with Uukha limbs) the tiller bolts ate about 2 ½ turns from bottom. On my 3D rig (WF 25 with W&W N-Apecs) the tiller bolts are 7 turns from bottom.

Be blessed.

Toby

 

None of the above.
Mid adjustments unless bow is noisy. Most manufacturers set at mid for 28" draw. It's really tiller bolts adjustments. Lol. There are some advantages to plus or minus, like Steve said. In short some benefits to your draw length vs tiller setting and holding/drawing steady.
I don't use them for tuning the arrow. That why it's called arrow tuning. Well BH and nock set. Lol. Happy Thanksgiving.
Dan

 

The Olympic guys use the bolts to tune the arrows because they understand that there truly is an optimum rest offset and plunger tension for each archer. I think very few barebow shooter have the patience and repeatable precision to get to that level. They also aren't chasing speed as we do so long as they have the required sight marks.

A barebow archer trying for a specific point on is similarly at the mercy of the arrow length and weight so using the limb bolts makes sense there too. Especially since shooting a hard gap closely ties your impact to arrow tune. For me personally I simply cannot increase plunger offset and expect the arrows to hold a line at all distances. Likewise when stringwalking my ideal tune uses little or no plunger tension adjustment as the crawl changes. If I change my spring tension to adapt to arrows with are not in tune with the bow I will not be in the center of ideal tension. Fortunately when stringwalking my only arrow length restriction is that which is long enough to clear the rest although having the shank of the point behind the button at anchor has not been a forgiving setup in my experience. But it still gives me more room to tune the arrow to the bow then an Olympic shooter would have.

Grant

 

The Olympic guys use the bolts to tune the arrows because they understand that there truly is an optimum rest offset and plunger tension for each archer. I think very few barebow shooter have the patience and repeatable precision to get to that level. They also aren't chasing speed as we do so long as they have the required sight marks.

Grant

I always start with optimum rest/plunger offset, and tune around that, my goal being to get the perfect tune by not to straying from that optimum string alignment. The real art is selecting an arrow that gets you in the ball park, I've spent a small fortune on arrows when I started out with Recurve lol

Using online 'tuning for 10's' methods I've got a very good tune without needing to stray too far away from normal Recurve freestyle tune(nock point is normally 6-7mm). It could be the extra stiff Vanquish riser because I would get some arrow drift on long distance shots like I did using the Moon, everything is down the line from 5 to 100 yards.

Some Barebows have been at this tuning lark a lot longer than me, I got some good tips from the top guys and I'm at least at the stage where I feel if I make a bad shot it's a Form error and nothing to do with my tune. My Bareshafts are good to 40y.

 

I set them to the weight I want

 

That's a pretty vague question and the answers will depend on what type of bow and the intended use. I use mine for hunting so best for me is max performance and quiet. I always try to setup with bolts all the way in (which is really max preload), but I have no idea if it affects accuracy at all. I'm not that detailed and it would also take adjustments to the arrow spine (like new or different length arrows) so call me lazy.

Less preload will always feel better as its less weight and maybe more accurate because of it, but the only fair way to judge this is with different weight limbs setup bolts in/out to be the same draw weight. If I win the lottery and retire I plan to figure this out.

 

Manuals for bows like the Dalaa and TradTech risers provide suggested ranges for setting the amount of pre-load. Where it becomes interesting is with warf risers. For example the TD3 riser has a limb bolt extension that gives one a huge range while keeping sufficient threads engaged on the bolts. I have a long DL so I like to use minimal pre-load, but the trick is finding the point of balance. Another issue is the connection being used. The TD3 has a huge range because of the limb bolt extension. So much that it could extend beyond the range of an ILF fitting and allow it to bind.

 

Next poll question: Which is better, and soft or stiff plunger setting, and why?

 

Steve, just like a piano. Larry once told us that he was witness to engineer evaluation of frequency on all components.
So for me settings at mid works for mid draw length. BH for preloading. Nock and center shot for aim point on.
Dan

 

I set mine 3 turns out mainly because this was advised by the manufacture/dealer when I bought my first ILF riser,,my Titan.
So I also use that base for my SF/Uukha as well.
One of the recognisable benefits to me is that both limbs are then adjustable in both directions for tiller adjustments.

John.

 

Wow one of mine is always bottomed out and the other is out enough to adjust tiller. Guess ill have to try turning them out a few turns and watch my scores climb.

 

DDD that makes a lot of sense. This is becoming a timely thread since I'm just adding tiller tweaking to my tuning regimen....

 

ddd that makes a lot of sense. This is becoming a timely thread since i'm just adding tiller tweaking to my tuning regimen....

^^^yep!^^^