The effect of tiller on impact

Brad Lehmann · 2025-09-19T19:07:16-0400

I've been playing with using a release to give my arthritis a break. In setting up the bow, I'm using Discovery R1 mediums on a 19" Atlas riser. I initially set the nock points at about 3/8" high. I left the tiller bolts alone. The D loop is tied on the outside of the nock points. After getting used to the release, I started attempting to shoot for accuracy. The arrows were impacting about ten inches high and to the right. I'm not worried about the windage just yet so I decided to play with the tiller to pull the impacts down. I decided to try negative tiller first and turned out the bottom tiller bolt two turns more than the top bolt setting. That actually pulled the impact down to where I wanted it, but the bow wasn't happy at all. I reset the tiller to neutral, shot a few arrows, and the arrows were back to impacting quite high. The bow was still noisy so I bumped the brace height up to 8 3/4". That helped with the noise level and the impact came down a couple of inches. Now I have a bounce off the shelf, so the impact point doesn't really mean anything. I moved the nock point up some more, but I'm about a hundred arrows in for the day and the temperature is in the mid nineties, so I haven't shot that setting yet.

All the while I'm playing with this I'm thinking about the old Bear bows from the mid fifties that had so much positive tiller that the bow looks like the top limb is about to give up the ghost. I never quite wrapped my head around why they did that. I'm trying to think through what putting a D loop on the bow does to the impact in relation to how arrows impact using three under or split finger. If I'm thinking correctly, a D loop would be similar to two finger split, which should bring the impact up a bit. So I'll finally get to my question: if I weaken one end of the bow, does the impact move away from the weaker limb or move with the weaker limb?

Grizz67 · 2025-09-19T19:21:38-0400

If you weaken one end arrow impacts away from weak end....what I read

DDD · 2025-09-19T19:40:39-0400

Level D loop and center shot. Even tiller. Is were I would start. Change your anchor. RUSTY and Bob Morrison has a couple threads on thier setup. Do a search on them?
DDD

Brad Lehmann · 2025-09-19T19:45:05-0400

I haven't got to the center shot yet. It has been so long since I shot with a release that I've forgotten where I was anchoring. Seems like I was putting the string on my nose, which has grown with age.

Redfeather0016 · 2025-09-19T21:17:59-0400

I would think even tiller and center is a good starting point.

Sam Dunham · 2025-09-19T22:54:45-0400

Since you are using a release, yes? Paradox may have changed from the horizontal to the vertical. Are you adjusted to centershot? Have you tried a bareshaft for impact?

Brad Lehmann · 2025-09-20T06:00:26-0400

Paradox has changed. I expected as much. Once I get the elevation fixed, I'll address the windage. Until I settle on and get used to an anchor point, nothing much is going to be settled. I would like to get the bow sounding happy first. I never expected so much noise from tieing on a D loop. I think that I've thrown off the tiller to cause the noise. I haven't found much information but have seen where the D loop is centered to as much as an inch and a half below the nock points.

Doing this is like starting over and reprogramming myself and retuning the bow. I am hoping to find someone that is actually using a D loop and release and can sort of mentor me along the process. Even though things are far from settled, I can say that I'm seeing groupings much tighter than I produce with arthritic hands that don't work well. The tighter groups give me hope that this may be the solution to my erratic accuracy that has steadily grown worse as the arthritis progresses.

Jim Casto Jr · 2025-09-20T07:31:54-0400

DAS wrote: "ADJUSTING THE TILLER TO A MORE NEGATIVE STATE WILL RAISE THE BARESHFT GROUP, going more positive will lower it."

In this thread:

https://www.tradtalk.com/threads/a-few-words-about-tiller.13991/?post_id=140110#post-140110

metalanton · 2025-09-20T09:51:54-0400

Here is my explanation of tiller. Since you are directly below nock with a loop your contact /balance point is way above bow center so with even tiller you are already truly at negative tiller. On your setup , I wouldn't hesitate to go 1/4" positive tiller. Negative tiller can cause nock high problems too.

Bowmania · 2025-09-20T10:06:48-0400

DDD and Sam are on the money. Besides the center shot and tiller, how are you aiming and where's your nocking point. Three under robs the bow of energy more than split. With your D-loop you get the most. That could account for part of the 10 inches. The rest could be anchor. Leave that 10 inches alone until you tune. It could be where the true impact is.

Well, first set the nocking point (two of them) to 90 and then even tiller. Impact of the bare shaft will tell you stiff or weak.

Bowmania

Sam Dunham · 2025-09-20T16:21:28-0400

And, set Centershot as close to center as you can. On compounds set to center and we'd tune the old TM Hunter prong rest spring akin to how you would tune a Cushion plunger. Paradox with finger release is a result of the string being pushed away by the fingers;That's why tuning deflection and Centershot outboard allows the arrow to make the proper S bend to clear the Riser from horizontal contact. When shooting a Recurve with a release negates the finger inputs. Now you tune deflection in the vertical. Betting your arrows probably stiff now.

The effect of tiller on impact

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