I seen that when I bought mine a couple of years ago, fake news, they are machined out of cast aluminum, I researched that claim extensively. I bought mine to see if I would like the Hoyt Satori before I spent big buck on one.
Once I bought one and decided I liked the riser I bought the 19” Hoyr Satori and am extremely happy with it.

 

1 I wouldnt believe any thing they advertise.

2 How will the bow work better if its CNC instead of cast? Do we have reports of structural failue from Tbows?

 

What I have seen over the years designers go to great lengths to create rigidness in risers at the same time keeping weight in check. CNC is just the shaping of the riser, it’s the type and quality of aluminum that separates cast from other aluminums and increases quality and costs. Then between the TBow producers and the Satori producers you have another thing to consider, quality control.
All of that said most will not know the difference and in the compound word I have had both.
When you have both as I do side by side you can see the differences.

 

I would ask them publicly if they have changed from cast. It's plausible. I don't know much about TBow, but I have noted some inexpensive Chinese riser makers are now producing finely machined alu risers. I own the F261 from Junxing (makers of the Black Hunter) and it is a very nice piece of kit indeed. Perfect fit and finish 7075 alu. They make it for Lancaster Archery as the 'EXE Scream'.

 

I have the 21" Exe Scream Version and I have been told many times by guys shooting high end custom bows how nice it looks and that it will be there next bow. I have it matched with 40lb Uukha Gobi's. I am shooting a 550 grain arrow so almost 14 gpp at 168 Fps.

 

Sizzling at 14 gpp, I'd reckon!

 

I’m at 140fps, 555grn, 27” draw, 38.8 Gobi longs on a 19” Satori. And I was feeling good with that untill…….

 

So.... it's not 40# at your draw length? Do you know what the actual weight is at your draw length?

 

It's 40.1 at 29.25" on my fingers as measured on my draw board when my clicker go's off.

 

I'd highly suggest you NEVER let those limbs get away from you.

 

On a post months ago I was asking about elk hunting set ups and when I said what my bow was shooting I was told that while it was fast several people said I should have been 10-15 feet faster. Even Breathn thought I should have been faster but probably 5 fps but he said almost no 40lb bows shoot that fast with that arrow weight

What I do know is based upon what most people responded about their personal elk hunting set ups my bow was shooting on average 10 pounds draw lighter with roughly the same arrow weight and speed and often significantly faster if they had a sub 28" draw.

 

Park Falls, I have that particular TBow from Amazon. I have not compared it against any other or earlier version, but I doubt it's machined. I think it's probably false advertising.

I think the Tbow riser is quite nice. I bought it as an affordable entry point back into archery. For that, I think it's great. It does have issues. I bought two of those Amazon bows and kept one. Both lacked set screws for the limb alignment system. Without set screws, the limb alignment screws were continually vibrating loose and needed re-tightening during the middle of shooting. Very annoying, but easily solved by getting some short set screws from Ace and putting them in behind the limb alignment screws.

The tiller bolts also don't seem to lock properly, despite the presence of set screws here. They need to be tightened all the time as well. (Possible I'm just not tightening them hard enough, but I'm leary of using much force as I've read tales of people stripping these bolts out.

But despite these problems, and even if we assume it's cast aluminum, the riser is quite nice for the price. Maybe the best deal going.

There are quite a few old, very long threads on this board about the Tbow and it's origins. Having read all of them before buying mine, I happen to think there is a reasonably good chance that Junxing was making Satoris, possible even casting them, in the early days of the riser's existence. For a very long time, Hoyt refused to respond to inquiries about where the Satori was made, what it was made of, and whether it was machined. Then, all of a sudden, they told someone from this board on the phone, that the Satori was machined in the USA. Right around that time, the Satori changed shape - losing the little flanges flanking the sides of the limb butts - and acquired a "Made in the USA" stamp or engraving. Some suggested that these little flanges would be a pain to machine and so they were removed from the design when they began to machine the riser.

Another clue is found in this article written by a guy who says he helped design the Satori: Hoyt Satori Recurve Review - Rokslide

A short way into that review, we find this photo:

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hoyt ever sold the Satori with that laminated wood grip. This is the only photo in which this handle appears, as far as I know. Where did it come from?

This is the grip of the Tbow:

Maybe Junxing made the early Tbows and was originally going to also supply laminated wood grip, but Hoyt rejected the grip and went with a solid wood one.

So my hypothesis is that the Satori was originally cast in China by Junxing. Later, in response to public scrutiny, Hoyt began machining Satoris in the USA. Meanwhile, Junxing had a bunch of the risers in their possession, and put them into the Chinese domestic market, from whence they leaked into foreign markets via Alibaba and from there onto various online retail outlets like Amazon, Aliexpress and eBay. Whether the risers Junxing had were identical to the early Satoris is unknown.

Possibly they were an unauthorized/pirate production from the same factory, maybe using inferior aluminum. Or maybe they were from the actual Satori production line, but were factory seconds - they failed QC for some reason - that someone at the factory smuggled out the back door, which is a very common practice in China.

If any of this is correct, a big question would be why Junxing would jeopardize their relationship with Hoyt by doing any of this pirated activity.

And then there is this: Junxing's most recent Hoyt ripoff, a copy of the Xceed 25" ILF riser. Junxing (or whomever sells these things) originally called the Satori clone the "Tbow H1"; this Xceed copy is being marketed as the "Tbow H7"

Of course, I could be totally wrong about most of this. It's possible that Junxing has no formal relationship with Hoyt and that they just reverse engineered the Satori and now the Xceed.

In any case, the Satori-clone Junxing H1 is sold with 60 pound limbs and I've never heard of a failure. It's quite possible that Junxing simply looked at the Satori when it first came out, noticed that it was quite a chunky design - overbuilt - and figured that the design would be plenty strong enough with a simple cast. Why machine it when a cast is strong enough?

So, bottom line, in my opinion, is that the TBows being sold now are just fine, but are probably cast from aluminum of unknown quality. The paint job is weak and will chip. The limb alignment screws need set screws. The tiller bolts will probably loosen on 'ya. The laminated grip is nice looking but kind of huge and will probably need replacing.

The Tbow riser can be had for around $90 on aliexpress, although it is usually sold for around $125 on eBay. For only $50-100 more, there are a number of risers (e.g. W&W Black Elk) that are maybe better quality and better deals, and don't require that one get wrapped up in some international piratical mystery.

 

Park Falls, I have that particular TBow from Amazon. I have not compared it against any other or earlier version, but I doubt it's machined. I think it's probably false advertising.

I think the Tbow riser is quite nice. I bought it as an affordable entry point back into archery. For that, I think it's great. It does have issues. I bought two of those Amazon bows and kept one. Both lacked set screws for the limb alignment system. Without set screws, the limb alignment screws were continually vibrating loose and needed re-tightening during the middle of shooting. Very annoying, but easily solved by getting some short set screws from Ace and putting them in behind the limb alignment screws.

The tiller bolts also don't seem to lock properly, despite the presence of set screws here. They need to be tightened all the time as well. (Possible I'm just not tightening them hard enough, but I'm leary of using much force as I've read tales of people stripping these bolts out.

But despite these problems, and even if we assume it's cast aluminum, the riser is quite nice for the price. Maybe the best deal going.

There are quite a few old, very long threads on this board about the Tbow and it's origins. Having read all of them before buying mine, I happen to think there is a reasonably good chance that Junxing was making Satoris, possible even casting them, in the early days of the riser's existence. For a very long time, Hoyt refused to respond to inquiries about where the Satori was made, what it was made of, and whether it was machined. Then, all of a sudden, they told someone from this board on the phone, that the Satori was machined in the USA. Right around that time, the Satori changed shape - losing the little flanges flanking the sides of the limb butts - and acquired a "Made in the USA" stamp or engraving. Some suggested that these little flanges would be a pain to machine and so they were removed from the design when they began to machine the riser.

Another clue is found in this article written by a guy who says he helped design the Satori: Hoyt Satori Recurve Review - Rokslide

A short way into that review, we find this photo:

View attachment 40534

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hoyt ever sold the Satori with that laminated wood grip. This is the only photo in which this handle appears, as far as I know. Where did it come from?

This is the grip of the Tbow:

View attachment 40535

Maybe Junxing made the early Tbows and was originally going to also supply laminated wood grip, but Hoyt rejected the grip and went with a solid wood one.

So my hypothesis is that the Satori was originally cast in China by Junxing. Later, in response to public scrutiny, Hoyt began machining Satoris in the USA. Meanwhile, Junxing had a bunch of the risers in their possession, and put them into the Chinese domestic market, from whence they leaked into foreign markets via Alibaba and from there onto various online retail outlets like Amazon, Aliexpress and eBay. Whether the risers Junxing had were identical to the early Satoris is unknown.

Possibly they were an unauthorized/pirate production from the same factory, maybe using inferior aluminum. Or maybe they were from the actual Satori production line, but were factory seconds - they failed QC for some reason - that someone at the factory smuggled out the back door, which is a very common practice in China.

If any of this is correct, a big question would be why Junxing would jeopardize their relationship with Hoyt by doing any of this pirated activity.

And then there is this: Junxing's most recent Hoyt ripoff, a copy of the Xceed 25" ILF riser. Junxing (or whomever sells these things) originally called the Satori clone the "Tbow H1"; this Xceed copy is being marketed as the "Tbow H7"

Of course, I could be totally wrong about most of this. It's possible that Junxing has no formal relationship with Hoyt and that they just reverse engineered the Satori and now the Xceed.

In any case, the Satori-clone Junxing H1 is sold with 60 pound limbs and I've never heard of a failure. It's quite possible that Junxing simply looked at the Satori when it first came out, noticed that it was quite a chunky design - overbuilt - and figured that the design would be plenty strong enough with a simple cast. Why machine it when a cast is strong enough?

So, bottom line, in my opinion, is that the TBows being sold now are just fine, but are probably cast from aluminum of unknown quality. The paint job is weak and will chip. The limb alignment screws need set screws. The tiller bolts will probably loosen on 'ya. The laminated grip is nice looking but kind of huge and will probably need replacing.

The Tbow riser can be had for around $90 on aliexpress, although it is usually sold for around $125 on eBay. For only $50-100 more, there are a number of risers (e.g. W&W Black Elk) that are maybe better quality and better deals, and don't require that one get wrapped up in some international piratical mystery.

Probably a pretty controversial theory around here than Junxing may have made the early Satori's, but it seems vaguely possible. Just as so much of W&W is by Sanlida in China. Junxing are a powerhouse, and seem to have and hold long relationships with big brand customers of their OEM line. Lancaster Archery are one, working with Junxing for years on a lot of their offerings. They are the designers and makers of the Black Hunter, which Mandarin Duck branded as such and took to the market at a massive scale.

The company are good bowyers, with several unique and successful designs, so it's disappointing to read they are doing the clone game with the Xceed. I note that I don't see it on their site however. If they are the makers, I wonder however how quick we can be to assume that Hoyt are the actual sole designers of that riser. Perhaps (a big maybe) Junxing were first, and Hoyt tweaked it as an OEM. Not implausible also Hoyt may have worked with them on it, and then took it to market as the Xceed.

In any case there's clearly a lot more international collaboration between big US/EU/KR brands and the likes of Sanlida and Junxing than we know. As I see it the tide is turning. These Chinese companies now have amassed a lot of design nous and research, and want to do more than just high volume high tech manufacture - they're becoming successful designers and engineers, something the market is proving true.

 

IDK what the riser is cast or machined on mine. But I do know the bow shoots very well and is my favorite bow.

 

I like mine a lot too. Despite the problems mentioned above, I would not part with it. If the real Satori is in any way even better...well, that's a hell of a riser.

 

I haven‘t had any issues with my TBow. Here is a picture of my 2022 manufactured Satori limb pads and my TBow. My riser is also stamped Made I USA.

Both are machined, there just different aluminum.
Hoyt had sent me the specs some time ago before I bought my Satori.
That picture of the flat limb pad was off an old prototype I was told.
I am an old Hoyt shooter from years ago so I wanted the Satori, but I will say unless you have some reason to have the Hoyt the TBow will do you fine.

 

I haven‘t had any issues with my TBow. Here is a picture of my 2022 manufactured Satori limb pads and my TBow. My riser is also stamped Made I USA.

Both are machined, there just different aluminum.
Hoyt had sent me the specs some time ago before I bought my Satori.
That picture of the flat limb pad was off an old prototype I was told.

I stand corrected on all those points.

 

Will the Tbow, handle say 65lb to 70lb limbs. I have the 17'' Satori I think it's great riser.

 

I wouldn't. The alu quality is unknown and the heaviest limbs they ship with it are 60lb. Bear in mind that even if the riser proper holds up, tiller bolts or other hardware may not.

 

Rosco, not to derail but curious as to where you are sourcing 70lb ILF limbs.

 

Yeah, it's a weird thing, and weirder with the appearance of the TBow H7 (Xceed clone).

On additional twist in the story is that Archery Supplies, the Aussie retailer that sold and touted the Tbow H1 early on, is a Hoyt dealer. I believe that Archery Supplies initially did not stock the Satori but only the Tbow. Right now they have both on their site. You'd think that Hoyt would jump on them if the Tbow were a completely pirated product. (Odd also that the Archery Supplies guy in the video mentions the Satori only in passing at the beginning ("I've never seen it because it's too expensive"), and not by name.

I am pretty sure that Junxing manufacturers the Tbow line, but you're right that Junxing is not explicitly claiming authorship, so to speak. But here is a link: Традиционный лук Junxing TBow H1

Here's a link from a Thai retailer for the new H7 Xceed clone:

(the H7 looking very sexy with Uukha SX50s)

Here it is on Aliexpress as the "Junxing H1": https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802938041457.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

"Tbow Junxing" in Google turns up many more.

 

Actually, Junxing does claim the TBow line: Recurve Bow - JunXing Archery Sports Co., Ltd Compound Bow & Recurve Bow

And...pretty crazy, the video for the Junxing H1 (Satori clone) shows the riser set up as a compound: JunXing H1 Recurve Bow

 

Actually, Junxing does claim the TBow line: Recurve Bow - JunXing Archery Sports Co., Ltd Compound Bow & Recurve Bow

And...pretty crazy, the video for the Junxing H1 (Satori clone) shows the riser set up as a compound: JunXing H1 Recurve Bow

Hmm, not sure this proves they "claim the TBow line", so much as make the line for an external brand called TBow (and possibly others), sold under other names. Just as the F261 is an OEM product sold as 'EXE Scream' by Lancaster and the F171 is sold as the 'Black Hunter' by Mandarin Duck. It is of course possible they also own the brands TBow and Mandarin Duck .

Finding out where your kit is actually made and by whom is a bit of a detective novel at times. Win&Win and SF gear esp starts to get really hall of mirrors.

 

Well, your point is perfectly valid, but they are an OEM and are selling the three TBow products. They are claiming the products but not necessarily the brand? In any case, I think it's highly likely that, as a big OEM, they are the ones making these products. Even though they don't mention the "TBow" branding, the products on their website are branded so in the photos. I'm just surprised that they are openly selling these things. Makes me think they have some kind of deal with Hoyt. Or possibly they could care less about Hoyt.

 

I have a couple hoyt exceeds and an exceed t bow clone. The clone isn’t as well machined and makes a different, more “ping!” Of a sound. With the bow set up it’s VERY similar. I’m filling in some of the cutouts, adding weight, painting earth tones and using it as a drag through the hills mountains bow.

 

Everwood, thanks, interesting. Do you think the H7 is worth the price, all things considered?

BTW, I asked Junxing about the aluminum used and construction (cast, machined?) of both H1 and H7 via email but did not get a reply. I might query several Aliexpress retailers and see if I get anything that way.

And just a heads up: between now and 11/11 is probably the best time to buy stuff on Aliexpress.

 

Rosco, not to derail but curious as to where you are sourcing 70lb ILF limbs.

Sorry for the late reply Remote hoyt do 65 and Border, I don't use over 55 at the fingers myself I just saying will it handle that weight