Just three hours left... will somebody please decide for me.

Best,

Martin

 

Martin, I have a ML-14. I like it but it definately has hand shock. I believe the late models are FF compatible, but I'm not certain. Mine is 55@28 and is as marked. I only shoot straight limbed longbows so that is my point of reference. I would not pay more than $200 US for one.:highfive:

 

More questions I didn't answer. The bow is slow for it's design and as far as durability goes, you could use it to pry your vehicle out of the mud and not hurt it, not that I've tried that, yet.....

 

Martin, I'm sure you have noticed my mention of the ML-10 in the recent past, and maybe now is a good time for me to provide a bit more detailed explanation as to why I didn't like that bow.

1. I was strictly a recurve shooter for 10 years before I shot the bow.
2. It was the very first longbow I had ever shot.
3. I had no instruction whatsoever as how to shoot it properly to attain a level of shooting comfortability, or accuracy for that matter.
4. I probably was not shooting a heavy enough arrow, it was only 10 gr/lb.

Because of the abovementioned factors, the one I shot (50 or 55 @ 28, I can't remember) rattled my bones, hurt my elbow, and I shot arrows about as good as a peashooter. The HH-type narrow straight grip and the lightweight nature of the bow was so foreign to me compared to shooting a recurve, I was a total failure with the bow. And of course, I had no grit or determination to become an efficient shooter with it because I still had my recurve and all I could think of at the time was.... I can't hunt with this bow!

I'm sure that if I picked up that same bow today, I would not like it.... but would probably have better luck in shooting it OK, as I have learned a bunch of things since then. Heck, I could even shoot Hank's homemade longbow last summer OK, so the ML-10 experience had more to do with my personal archery inexperience than anything else.

It's only 40# right?? I can't imagine it would shake too many bones at that poundage, LOL. You seem to have the same curiosities that I currently have about learning about other aspects of other types of bows. Only difference is, I've taken the patty-cake way out and looking at reflex/deflex longbows. You know.... those recurve wannabe longbows.

 

I have 3 Martins of that style and used to shoot them exclusively years ago and did very well with them. I actually had a very respected custom back in the day (one I had custom made for me and paid full price for) and traded it for 2 Martins and $50.

The trick with shooting the older Hill Style Martins is too make sure the grip is shaped right and have your hand seated in it properly. (Sunset Hill on the leatherwall is an expert on this.) When gripped properly, it eliminates much of the hand shock.

I think putting some phenolic overlays on the tips and going to a newer string material might also knock it down some, along with upping the performace of the bow.

Arrowslinger is correct, these bows are tough, made in the true sense of a longbow, not like some of these noodle tipped longbows of today. We used ours for walking staffs at times.

 

Thanks everyone.

I reckon I will get about 49# out of that bow... so hand shock could be a problem. I've not experienced it and use an open hand/sling on my recurves. What must I change?

Also, arrow weight: Must it really be around 10gr. per pound?

Best,

Martin

 

I have an ML-10 70" 48#@28". For me it is a nice bow and I enjoy shooting it. Works great with my Carbon Express Heritage 150s. Not fast but stable and predictable. HOWEVER, I have seen grown men nearly in tears claiming they felt handshock that numbed their bow arm. Some folks actually cry out in pain! There is some handshock but I've never felt anything that caused pain.

 

Here is what Sunset Hill posted on the proper Hill Style Grip.

"One other function of the narrow grip that is seldom mentioned. Once you are used to it, and are gripping it correctly, there is no sharpness felt, and you absolutely know exactly where to place your hand for absolutey repeatable hand placement. This is something that a rounder handle lacks. You can grip the handle off center with a round handle and not notice it, which affects torque. With the narrow handle, you always grip torque free"

There is more wisdom in that post than you will ever know

 

It went for almost 170 Euros, which I considered too much... oh well. Hand shock? Still don't know what it is.

Best,

Martin

 

I don't know about that Hank.... "absolutely know exactly where to place your hand" sounds pretty persnickety to me.

Martin, it's OK that you don't know what handshock is... you're probably better of not knowing what it is, lol.

 

Martin...Hold a shovel by the wood handle out in front of you like holding a bow, have someone else hit your shovel handle with another shovel as hard as they can, when the feeling comes back into your fingers and hand you will know what hand shock is...lol..warf

 

Hold a shovel by the wood handle out in front of you like holding a bow, have someone else hit your shovel handle with another shovel as hard as they can, when the feeling comes back into your fingers and hand you will know what hand shock is...

That's the only way I'll find out in the near future Bob, 'cos I'm going to cure myself of this longbow thing by buying a DAS off WildmanSC. Rumour has it he dry-fired the bow and is selling dirt cheap... and since I was the first to make an offer, he's honour-bound to deal with me first. Don't tell him, but when I get it, I'm going to dry-fire it another 1999 times as Atlantis advises. Reckon I can't trash any arrows that way, so I'll end up saving money. The price, incidentally, is around $25.

Best,

Martin

 

Welcome to the Bob Gordon School of hand shock...lol

Piney....lets just say it really narrows it down.

 

Since Martin didn't get the ML-10 but the subject of handshock is now on the table, I'm convinced some people are physically, or perhaps physiologically, more prone to this than others. Maybe it would also be accurate to say some people are less sensative to it for the same reason.

I bought a 45# (at my draw) HH Big Five when I came back into archery in the late '90s. I shot that bow for one day, trying to get used to it. The lightest arrows I had were around 500g (2117s full length) and I tried all the brace heights HH Archery recommended. I used a loose grip, a tight grip and a medium grip. I shot with a slight bend to the elbow, a lot of bend to the elbow and no bend to the elbow. No matter what I did, every shot hurt my bow arm elbow. By the end of the day I had tendonitis so bad I quit shooting everything for weeks. HH Archery was nice enough to give me a full refund so I can't say anything against them. When I did start shooting again it was with a recurve.

About two years later I got bit by the longbow bug again and decided the way to go was fully traditional, i.e. real English Longbow. I was talking to bowyers and trying to decide what one to get when a friend who has several let me shoot one of his. It was his longest bow and he thought I could come close to my draw length without hurting it. Didn't hurt the bow but one arrow damn near did in my elbow again.

The guy who loaned me the ELB can't imagine what on earth I'm talking about. He doesn't think there is such a thing as "hand shock" from a bow. I've heard the same thing from others, yet I also run into guys like me who just can't shoot any of those straight limbed LBs.

If you don't notice it, count your blessings but don't say there is no such thing. Some of us know it only too well.

Dave

 

There are people out there that really know what they are doing with Hill Style bows and grips. I know what everyone is talking about with the handshock and I will say this....when the switch clicks, its like magic. What seemed like a club turns into a stable, smooth shooting machine.

Most will never know...... and thats ok.

 

There are people out there that really know what they are doing with Hill Style bows and grips. I know what everyone is talking about with the handshock and I will say this....when the switch clicks, its like magic. What seemed like a club turns into a stable, smooth shooting machine.

Most will never know...... and thats ok.

Must be nice to be so gifted and so special!

Dave

 

I had shot HH bows for a long time and heard all the talk about hand shock. I didn't have a clue what they were talking abot either. I found a brand new Jerry Hill Black Drake 65#@28" for sale for a nicely reduced price. I bought it on the spot. in a few days I ended up at the range with it. the first shot it took my mind a little bit to figure out just what happened. I thought the dang thing blew up or sumpin. I thought I must have broke a nock or sumpin. Nocked another arrows........that was the last arrow I ever shot thru the bow. I found out what hand shock was.

still don't find my HH's as hand shocky but i do know what it is.

rusty

 

Martin - I have always received excellent service and honest advice from Philippo Donadoni at
http://www.e-archery.it
He has a couple of cheap new Martins in his special offers page although perhaps too heavy in draw weight. Might be worth a look though and he's a good guy to deal with.

 

Thanks for the link, Mac.

Great prices, aren't they? Couple of items really made me wish I were left-handed - anyone who is and lives here in Europe should definitely take a look.

Best,

Martin

 

Why didn't you know DA? Magic turns poop into pop tarts and toads into pretty little princesses.

Yes Hank, it really narrows it down.... like a boat paddle turned the wrong way.

 

Why didn't you know DA? Magic turns poop into pop tarts and toads into pretty little princesses.

No Piney, I didn't know that. See, you're never too old to learn stuff. (oh, what the heck, stick a smiley face in here too)

Dave

 

(oh, what the heck, stick a smiley face in here too)

Dave

:lol: Too funny !

 

I have owned 4, and shot many more straight-limbed "Hill" style longbows...Some had just a "Bump", some were Horrible...I mean HORRIBLE!!..my old Martin M.L.10 would give me a headache after about an hour of shooting..seriously...I think that ALOT of the problem with Hill-style bows and handshock is the limb materials, and the Tiller...The tiller of the straight-limbed bow has to be PERFECT...I am not refering to the amount of bend in the top limb, vs. the lower limb, I am refering to the even bending of the limbs themselves all the way through the working sections, and making sure that there are no stiff spots, and the bowyer making sure that both limbs return to the brace height at EXACTLY the same time...I have shot Hill bows by Craig Ekin, Hill bows by Kramer, and John Shulz, and Ron Maulding, and Doug Duncan, Jerry Hill, and Pete George..And Harry Elburg...and a few other no-name type bowyers...My 66" "Halfbreed" from Craig was a very good straight-limbed bow, and the Maulding "Bighorn" was just as good...But, the absolute best Hill-Style longbows that I have EVER shot were from Harry Elburg...I am stalking a Northern Mist Hill-style right now, and I'm still thinking about a 50# Big 5...But..IF I put all this longbow nonsense out of My head for a few days, I can usually overcome the desire to go tramping around on My regular "Ladies" with that tall, slim Harlot known as the Hill style longbow...She's alot of fun, but the commitment to Her isnt worth the trouble all that "FUN" will bring along with it...Besides, if I got another "LONGBOW", I'd have to start shooting wooden arrows agin...None for me, Thanks!.L.O.L...Take care!.....Harpman

 

Worst bow for handshock I ever had...way worse than HH's...was a little GN GHOST #64 @26 I was pulling 28 1/2...

I didn't know any better at the time and was shooting 340 Beman ICS Hunters with 125 grain points....no additional weight...and a dacron string...

I didn't even know enough about fletching to understand why I was cutting my index finger and drawing blood every other shot...

But man that little bow could fling 'em...first time I shot it at 20 yards with my usual Checkmate Falcon hold...the arrow was two feet over the block target...still the fastest all wood bow I've ever shot...

But with the no-center cut LB grip and short length it was all the pain in the butt of a LB with none of the fun...

Still, I wouldn't pass up a Super Ghost if the price were right...

Martin, aren't there any decent LB makers in Germany? I know self-bows are very popular there...