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Lots of variations of gap shooting. Subconsciously gauging the gap/point id one of them. It's actually described similarly in Pope's book.

People read what they want, and use whatever special terms they want. I've had folks read Hill's chapter and try to argue he was talking about instinctive shooting.

End of the day it doesn't really matter how you choose to aim. You either hit your mark or you don't.
 
Gapping, point of aim, instinctive, indirect aiming....it boggles the mind the buzzwords we hear and most of them are just one person's interpretation of something they've read. You're spot on Kegan, just do what works to get the arrow where you need it. By now I'm hoping that I've shot that shot so many times that I can just draw, anchor, run my shot, and let the back of my brain handle the rest. Hopefully, if I can profit from all those hours spent in front of the blank bale, I can count on my form to be up to the task.

It would seem to me, in this old addled brain, that the best way to eliminate many of the variables we fight in aiming and shooting distance is to focus on exactly the same size target every single time. MBB4's Jay Kidwell's button comes to mind. If you know how big it is, how distance affects it's size, and you shoot it often enough and long enough eventually that shot should be ingrained, automatic...you should be able to step up, draw to anchor, and run your sequence.

Take a 3D course for example. It really doesn't make any difference what size the animal is or the size of the 10 ring, my "spot" is either someone else's arrow or a hole from a previous shot and a 1/4" spot is a 1/4" spot. If I can see it or the smallest cluster of them visible where I need them, that's my focus.

When you're hunting, again, you're looking for the smallest spot on the animal that sticks out and takes your broadhead through the middle of the boiler room. Seems to me that if you stick to your comfortable range and can consistently hit within 2" of that spot you should have meat at the end of the blood trail. I can assure you that neither the foam nor the deer cares what "method of aiming" I use.....
 
On and off. When I am over 40 yards, many times I do...depending on the bow I am using at the time. This is how I started out and I was pretty good but nowhere near as good as I am now, using a gap method. Not even close.
 
Following on from Larry's comments about Horace Fords writing on the subject, I think this extract might be of interest written in 1859 ...

... " When both eyes are directed to any single object, say the gold of the target, their axes meet at it, and all other parts of the eyes, having perfect correspondence as regards that object, give the sensation of direct vision; but images at the same time are formed of other objects nearer or farther to the right or the left, as the case may be, which may be called the indirect vision; and any object embraced by this indirect vision will be seen more or less distinctly, according to its remoteness or otherwise from either of the axes in any part of their length; and it will be, or at any rate naturally should be, clearest to the indirect vision of that eye to the axis of which it most approximates.

Now, in aiming with the bow, to arrive at anything like certainty, it is necessary to obtain a view of three things, namely, the mark to be hit (which is the gold of the target), the arrow in its whole line and length, (otherwise its real course cannot be appreciated), and the point of aim.

It may, perhaps, be as well to explain here, that by the point of aim is meant the spot apparently covered by the point of the arrow. This, with the bow, is never identical with the gold, excepting at one particular distance to each individual Archer, because the arrow has no adjusting sights to make it always so, as is the case with the rifle. As an example, let us suppose an Archer shooting in a side wind, say at eighty yards, and that this distance is, to him, that particular one where, in calm weather, the point of his arrow and the gold are identical. It is clear if he now makes them so, the effect of the wind will carry his arrow to the right or the left, according to the side from which it blows. He is, therefore, obliged to aim to one side of his mark, and the point of his arrow, consequently, covers a spot other than that of the gold. And this spot, in this instance, would be to him his point of aim. Under the parallel circumstances of a long range and a side wind, the rifle even would be subject to the same rule.
Now I shall be understood when I repeat, that it is necessary for the Archer to embrace within his vision the gold, the point of the aim, and the true line in which the arrow is directed.
Direct vision, however, can only be applied to one object at a time, and as that object must never in any case be the arrow, I will first proceed to show in what way this must be held, in order to enable the Archer, by means of his indirect vision, clearly to appreciate the true line in which it points at the time of aiming, leaving for after discussion the question as to whether the gold or the point of aim should be directly looked at.
Now it is at once asserted, as an incontrovertible axiom in Archery, that this true line can never be correctly appreciated by the shooter, excepting when the arrow lies in its whole length directly beneath the axis of the aiming eye. (The indirect vision of both eyes can never be used here, as, if it were, according to the law of optics, two arrows would he seen; but this is never the case with the habitual shooter, though both eyes be open, habit and the wonderful adapting power of the eye preventing such an untoward effect equally as well as if the second eye were closed-which, indeed, with many Archers is the case.)
I have said, then, that the arrow, in its whole length, must be directly beneath the axis of the aiming eye (which I shall here assume to be the right one, as in ninety-nine instances out of one hundred is the case,) and it must do so, because otherwise, the shooter will be deceived as to its true line; for so long as the point intersects the axis of the aiming eye, the arrow will appear to that eye to be pointing in a straight line with the object looked at, though in reality directed far away to the right or the left of it".


"Now, as to whether the direct vision should be applied to the mark or the point of aim, the argument is all in favour of the latter. For the point of aim must, necessarily, be in relation to the mark, either in a perpendicular line with it or outside that line: if outside, then the direct vision must certainly be upon the point of aim, otherwise the arrow cannot be directly beneath the line of the axis of the eye, which has already been shown to be necessary; therefore, the only remaining question to be decided is, when the point of aim falls in a perpendicular line with the mark, which of the two should be directly looked at? Here again an argument can be adduced to determine the choice in favour of the former; for when the point of aim is above the mark, the latter will be concealed from the right, or aiming eye, by the necessary raising of the bow-hand (as may be proved by the experiment of shutting the left eye); therefore, the direct vision cannot be here applied to the mark, though it may be to the point of aim. There remains then but one other case, namely, when the point of aim falls in the perpendicular line below the mark; and here (though either of them may in this case be viewed with the direct vision), as no reasoning or argument can be put forward for violating the rule shown to be necessary in the other cases, and as it is easier to view the point of aim directly, and the mark indirectly, than the contrary, and as uniformity of practice is highly desirable, I strongly recommend that in all cases the direct vision be upon the point of aim, This is contrary to the usual received opinion, which is that the eye should always be intently fixed upon the mark to be hit; but I am very much inclined to think that even those Archers that imagine they do so, will find, as I have done, upon careful experiment, that the point of aim is directly looked at, and not the mark, this being only seen indirectly, except as before stated, when the aim is point-blank; and this is exactly analagous to that part of rifle-shooting where allowance must be made for a strong side wind, at a long range.
 
Phil,

That's a nice bit of history. Asides from the Victorian writing style, Ford's take on aiming techniques and form sounds pretty "modern". I imagine there were heated debates about aiming styles even in the 1850s.

Jason
 
Phil,

That's a nice bit of history. Asides from the Victorian writing style, Ford's take on aiming techniques and form sounds pretty "modern". I imagine there were heated debates about aiming styles even in the 1850s.

Jason
It's an interesting extract Jason, and as you rightly say sounds pretty modern. Ford didn't make a lot of friends.
 
Ah, come on. If it less than point on just come on down the string and aim at it. If it is over point on just move your anchor and aim at it.

I have never under stood why they call string walking "black magic". It is not magic, it is aiming. The rest of this stuff is magic or maybe not. :)
 
"In the Indirect Imaginary Point Method the archer does
everything the same as the instinctive archer, concentrating on
the spot on the object ro be hit but with a few simple modifications.
These modifications are really simple but they look
complicated in the writing.
First we come up to the target. Our object is to hit the center.
Say we have a pie-plate up against a soft bank. You take your
stance and come to full draw, concentrate on the center of the
pie-plate and release. This is Instinctive shooting and as I said
before you can hit and kill with this method but supposing the
first shot is high by 12 inches. How can you correct this small
variance? Here is one way. Before coming ro full draw we
will have to make a few decisions. Where is the center of the
pie-plate in relation ro my indirect imaginary point. Come ro
full draw and again concentrate on the center of the pie-plate.
Is that all you see? NO. Indirectly and secondarily you see the
tip of your arrow. For that matter you see directly a lot of your
arrow projecting from under your eyes but it is indirect or better
to say indistinct. Keep concentration on the pie-plate but be
conscious of your indirect view of the arrow. Is the point of the
arrow above, below or on the pie plate) Now, before releasing,
you pick an imaginary point where the tip of the arrow is to be,
then release. If you shoot high you know your imaginary point
was that much too high.

The eyes are like the mind, they can only focus on one actual
object primarily but will see other objects secondarily, in other
words, you can look at and foc us on an object, yet other objects
are in your field of vision. Try the following: Concentrate on
an object straight in front of you, hold your arms at full extension
out on each side, slowly bring your arms around to the
front. You will note thar almost immediately they come into
your field of vision. Thus you see your arrow tip in your field
of vision alrhough you are concentrating and nor moving your
eyes from the center of the object you want to hit. The mind
can only handle ·one thought at a time but as has been said
before there is nothing faster than thought. Your mind is concentrating
on the center of the object to be hit but it flashes to
the imaginary point where the tip of the arrow is to be and
back to the object to be hit in the smallest part of the fraction
of a second. This may sound a little confusing but re-read the
portions that are doubtful and try the actual doing of them.
Now back to the pie-plate. We shot 12 inches high, but on
our first shot with this method we noted where the tip of the
arrow was or the ind irect imaginary point as I call it. We now
come to full draw and while drawing back the arrow and still
concentrating on the center of the pie-plate, we see to it that
the tip of the arrow (which is only seen indirectly), fi nds an
imaginary point 12 inches lower. Now we should score a hit.
With the above in mind the archer must concentrate on rhe
object with his eyes, keeping the SpOt where his arrow point
will be at full draw in his secondary vision. The mind at this
panicular moment is functioning very fast. It is estimating the
distance, selecting the imaginary point at the same time to full
draw and release. The pitfalls to watch out for are the shifting
of the eyes from the object to be hit. Always remember that the
imaginary point must be in the field of vision secondarily.
Practice keeping your eye on the objecr to be hit at all times and
do not look from the object to the arrow poi nt at any time.
Much the same as rhe go lfer keeping his eye on a spot on the
golf ball during his entire swing, so must you keep your eye on
the objecr at all times until the arrow hi ts. When you master
some way or system similar to the above to rectify or to correct
your elevarion then your second shots will start to payoff."
 
Well I shoot with both eyes open...always have always will. I am also cross eye dominate so I am screwed anyway (from the get go).

I have a corner of the mouth (use a tooth anchor cause it feels good and that's what I am used to)

I don't worry about getting my arrow close to my eye because that's not my dominate eye anyway and I don't close my left eye so I can see the arrow tip.

I look at what I want to hit.....(sorry but I burn a hole) I pull anchor adjust and shoot...that's it.

I am not the best shooter granted....I could be better if I shot left handed maybe.....Jimmy I see your shooting right handed again.....(just an observation) maybe your healthy again good for you.

If your having trouble JUST GET A SIGHT.....and get over it. If you want to beat everyone then you need some method that works for you and then you need to PRACTICE ALOT...perfect practice and do it alot.

I would venture a guess that for most of us mere mortals we have a distance that is comfortable then we work in that distance.....yes we might shoot further when practicing but we shoot our hunting shots in our comfort range.

Now for different bow weights I would do this to help grabbing a bow and hitting where you want very quickly.

TUNE THEM to shoot the same speed.....heavier or lighter arrow setups.....if they alll shoot say 185 or 190 or 200 fps......what's to get used too.

Anyway those are my thoughts.

Of course many say there is no instinctive shooting method.....I don't see anything but my target.....I have tried this in the dark with just a light at the target.....no difference for me but I am an odd ball...always have been and will remain that way fo rthe rest of my archery life.

cheers mates...jer
 
Isn't this exactly what Byron Ferguson does? Bob Wesley? I once played with it, but the gaps are huge, absolutely huge, with split-finger. Don't know how in the world anyone can calculate them quickly. People read about Hill, and try to duplicate his methods, but he was one in a million in terms of ability. It would be like reading about Bo Jackson and thinking that you could go play two professional sports. I think there are far easier methods for the average person.
 
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