Fair amount of heat exchangers required on EVs to cool various components.
But they definitely don't require as much grill space as an IC vehicle.

 

EVs are interesting gadgets and useful for some problems, such as reducing noise in downtown areas, but they're not going to "save the planet". All they really accomplish is to shift resource use and pollution elsewhere.

There is a shortage of minerals to build electric vehicle components (and other electronics) and the current plan to meet demand is to mine metal deposits on the seafloor. This will entail hoovering up millions of tons of material from pristine deep sea habitats, processing on a ship, then expelling the waste as gigantic plumes of sediment over vast areas of ocean. They don't know what the effects of this might be. And this colossal, worldwide, uncontrolled science experiment is somehow supposed to "save the planet" ....

Your Next Car May Be Built With Ocean Rocks. Scientists Can't Agree If That's Good

 

EVs are interesting gadgets and useful for some problems, such as reducing noise in downtown areas, but they're not going to "save the planet". All they really accomplish is to shift resource use and pollution elsewhere.

There is a shortage of minerals to build electric vehicle components (and other electronics) and the current plan to meet demand is to mine metal deposits on the seafloor. This will entail hoovering up millions of tons of material from pristine deep sea habitats, processing on a ship, then expelling the waste as gigantic plumes of sediment over vast areas of ocean. They don't know what the effects of this might be. And this gigantic, worldwide, uncontrolled science experiment is somehow supposed to "save the planet" ....

Your Next Car May Be Built With Ocean Rocks. Scientists Can't Agree If That's Good

Agreed. Little doubt the clown occupying the WH is just the puppet for the insane globalist. I remember my Jr high Ecology whack job screaming about climate in 1970. And in the 50+ years since, all the money dropped into that "ecology hole" only lined the pockets of the hypocrites at the top.
And then historians wonder how prior civilizations just seem to have vanished. Well it's because they allowed whack jobs to lead them to self destruct.
Not so long ago we used to put the insane behind locked doors and medicate them until contented.
Today we elect them to rule over us and wonder why things are crazy.

 

Many advantages to electric. Not just climate change. Here in Paris where I am often for work the diesel smog is near half gone since the move to electric buses, and with the boom in electric cars and cabs. Less heavy metal particulates from combustion engines means less asthma, less cognitive problems in kids, less cancer. Coupled with a boom in cycling alongside you have a fitter, healthier, happier population.

Sure not enough lithium to fuel the market wholesale replacing old style combustion, and the carbon cost.and pollution of each car is high, but the long term gains are too good to ignore. The market's still optimising also and there are Li-On alternatives in development.

We caved and got a little electric. Thing accelerates like an electric drill. Leaves the burners in the dust. Charging at home is awesome, and a ton cheaper. Looking fwd to the 4x4 market evolving, so we can get an off roader.

 

One question....
Where does the electricity come from?
...and don't say, "the box on the wall"
How is the electricity generated that charges that EV?
If you "objectively" consider ALL the energy needed to run 1 single EV, you will soon discover you have been lied to about EVs by every proponent of EVs. But you must be able to add 2+2 and get 4, first.
Does the story of the Emperor's new clothes, ring a bell?

 

I'll be honest and say that the only reason electric cars interest me is the performance. New tesla does 0-60 in 1.9 and from the few people I know that own them, require next to nothing in maintenance. I'll let people smarter than me figure out the rest of it instead of shouting into the void about the most recent internet article I read.

 

Bottom line with the environment is there's just way too many people.

Here's my favorite proposal...

 

I believe the overriding concern is far more about the resource and waste issues that accompany world scale ev production and usage.
As individuals the benefits seem positive. Rebates, credits, low maintenance, no gas, but multiplied by billions, some as yet unknown repercussions may await.
My neighbor was told his Tesla needs a new battery array. $14k.

 

Not surprised. Tesla are the premium EV. Nice cars. BMW are directly competing with them now.

As for the environmental costs, we'll see yep. So far hard to be worse than combustion's track record. Lithium is nasty stuff to mine, but as demand strips supply competition and investment into R&D on alternatives to Lithium is huge.

Energy mix is a big part of the equation for sure. In the EU, Brazil, New Zealand, Iceland and other spots it's a lot more diverse than the US as regards solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, and the tricky nuclear (as in France), and so EVs make end to end sense as regards meeting nationwide carbon drawdown targets.

EU has a much bigger population than the US so will influence the way things swing as regards market optimisations, leaders and competitive pricing. Even so, Japanese makers look set to dominate Tesla and the Euro car makers in the overall global market. They got a huge elbow in with the hybrids. Hard to catch a cab that isn't a Japanese EV or hybrid in Europe these days.

You see rich kids driving Tesla's in the EU, but working class in the Nissans and Toyotas. Volkswagen really missed the boat here. Japanese EV vans have also opened things up for delivery companies and tradesmen.

EDIT: I'm optimistic it's not going to cap out. EV market demand and competition is too fierce.

 

Let's re-visit this in 4 or 5 years.
There are no facilities managing the batteries that are coming to the end of their life cycle. They are just being "stored", most call it dumped.
Recycling centers are screaming about the dumping of lipo batteries now and those all fit in your pocket.
There is no plan right now to handle the proper disposal of ev batteries as they are piling up today. What's the 2 or 3 year plan as they accumulate exponentially?
And that just the evs that are already on the road and just evs, not even talking homes or businesses systems.

Yep, we'll have to see what this smells like in 3 or 4 years...

I'll stick with my IC vehicle that puts out over 200,K miles with proper care.
Your ev will never come close to that.

 

Just seems like a bunch of globalist billionaires have invested heavily into this technology and they are going to try to ram it down everyone's throat. If you raise objections or refuse to comply you'll be censored, called names, and shouted down. Thats the MO as we've seen in other recent times.

Anyway, back to OP's question; Why the grill? answer; To make it look more like a car.

 

To be clear, no "globalist billionaires" forced our EV purchase down our throat. We looked at all the options for this vehicle purchase, and our choice of EV worked out the most practical, most economical and least environmentally horrible. We pored over the EV lifecycle. Sure, EVs have their cradle to grave challenges, but they by far 'suck the least' compared to petrol and diesel.

Our EV is super low maintenance due to having much fewer parts. We charge at home and it costs very little. No exhaust fumes around the home. It's really quiet. It performs very well. No coal power is used to charge this vehicle given our supplier energy mix. All positives.

The more EVs in our region the better - the more fresh air, more insects and bird life, less respiratory illnesses, happier and healthier people, better cognitive performance and life outlook for our kid. Given the state of the planet we're handing them, the kids are going to need all the health and smarts they can get.

 

200k miles is nothing in EV lifespan even with current tech. Batteries are then frequently down cycled for stationary storage or smaller EVs such as ebikes.
Price out a used EV battery module sometime, then price out a used engine.

That isn't even looking at changes in chemistry which reduce materials requirements or shift them towards more common elements such as sodium.

If you are going to look at emissions then you have to look at the energy and emission costs to find, extract, process then deliver petroleum products.
Then you have to compare the remediation required for the petroleum industry, which is a massive bill our children/grandchildren will have to pay.

 

Challenge accepted:
Show me your 20+ year old EV with an odometer even close to this..

 

One clear environmental benefit of EVs is reduced fine particulate air pollution. There is mounting evidence that airborne metal nano particles are a major contributor to development of the plaques in the brain that lead to Alzheimer's disease. This is a major concern especially in urban areas with a lot of internal combustion vehicle traffic churning out nano particles both in engines and in brake pads. Electric vehicles produce much less of this kid of pollution, especially when built with regenerative brakes.

My grandmother died at a relatively young age from Alzheimer's. It's a bad way to go.

 

Sorry to hear about your Grandmother. Alzheimer's is a demon of a thing.

Pollution, primarily from vehicles, whacks kids during their early years too. It shapes them, affecting their life outlook.

- Air pollution and detrimental effects on children’s brain. The need for a multidisciplinary approach to the issue complexity and challenges

Urban children exhibit brain structural and volumetric abnormalities, systemic inflammation, olfactory, auditory, vestibular and cognitive deficits v low-pollution controls. Neuroinflammation and blood-brain-barrier (BBB) breakdown target the olfactory bulb, prefrontal cortex and brainstem, but are diffusely present throughout the brain. Urban adolescent Apolipoprotein E4 carriers significantly accelerate Alzheimer pathology. Neurocognitive effects of air pollution are substantial, apparent across all populations, and potentially clinically relevant as early evidence of evolving neurodegenerative changes.

And:

- Pollution and child development - Bernard van Leer Foundation

Pollution exposures in the first 1000 days of life – from conception to age 2 years – are especially dangerous, because during this time children’s bodies are growing and their organ systems are moving through complex developmental processes that can easily be disrupted. Exposures to even low levels of pollution during the first 1000 days can stunt children’s growth, increase their risk of disease, and cause lasting damage to their brains, lungs, reproductive organs and immune systems (Landrigan and Etzel, 2013).

So yep, another reason it's good combustion vehicles are being swapped out for EVs. More EVs the merrier. As much as I have strong sentimental connections to certain trucks and cars, they just don't make sense any more, or at least at scale.

 

I’ve seen some ev bashing but also some genuine concerns for their eventual side effects. Disposal of windmills and especially PV panels must be included in the mix too. The transition will create new issues, but hopefully manageable ones.
Personally I’m an advocate for nuclear. I understand Finland is about to open the first of it’s kind deep underground fission waste storage, with promising potential. The output possibilities when compared to wind and sun are interesting, and developing reasonable disposal solutions would make going nuclear a no brainer.
Recently heard about a pumped water recirculating hydroelectric system that pulls from reservoirs to higher elevations, then using huge pipes with internal turbines, sends the water back. Got no clue as to real world viability yet..

 

Not trad!

 

How about 1,000,000 miles:

Redirect Notice

 

Clicking on your link shows the butt end of a car.
Sorta falls short of an actual odometer.

 

Something went awry with the link Grant posted. Here's another that tells of the same record:

Tesla Model S Early Adopter Has Now Traveled Over 1 Million Miles

We figured this was inevitable, as this Tesla owner has been keeping the world apprised of his Model S mileage over the years. What an epic achievement.

insideevs.com

There's nothing inherently unreliable about EVs, as you keep hearing from naysayers. That Model S record proves this pretty well. Truth is a lot less parts means a lot less to go wrong in these machines than in an old style engine. That's a good thing.

 

Well folks, enjoy your pseudo science, eco propaganda, and whatever other group think makes you all fuzzy inside for ev.
Just like every other "top down" push from government, it will be short lived and eventually deemed, "a bad idea".
Lasting Societal, industrial, and market changes come from grassroots movements. (Bottom up public demands)
The public is not demanding evs.
Green new deal salesmen, carbon offset brokers and "save the planet" whack jobs are using government to force it upon people who honestly don't want it.
And that will never be successful.
It will be interesting to see which auto manufacturers go ch13 because of evs.
I'm sure it will be blamed on the silly grills still on evs.

(Turning the page)

 

The public is not demanding evs.

Feels a bit icky doing this, but I typed in "public demand" next to "electric vehicles" in my browser's search bar, and it returned dozens upon dozens, page after page, of site summaries citing market research that literally proves your belief wrong. But perhaps you will tell me all those people that wrote all those articles are just paid shills working for lizardmen in suits that are pulling the strings of leftist world domination. But it's not the case. People are buying EVs because they want them.

What's really happening here is that you are scared of EVs and change (we all are at a time) and are coming up with all the cons you can to dislike them, coming up with a conspiracy theory that they are being forced onto people, that people like my lady and I have no brains of our own in making the choice to buy one. You're also writing off care for the environment, the health of present and future generations as "green", like that's a bad thing. Green's my favourite colour.

As a wise person once said to me, "You can't argue someone out of a position they haven't argued themselves into".

EDIT: Thanks for starting this thread, very interesting. I do mean that, and with not a hint of snark.

 

Straight from youur article...
Here's some numbers for you to crunch, if you can...
It appears he purchased his current car in 2014. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
That's 8 years ago and the article states he has replaced the motor 8 times.
EIGHT times he has replaced the motor in 1,600,000. That's 1 new motor every 200,000 miles, which also adds up to 1 motor every year. Impressive for sure.

Now let's look at another number...
Battery life.
According to a giggle search, the average testla battery lasts 100,000 miles.
But the article only states that he has replaced his battery "at least twice" (That's vague and misleading)
If you can do the math, it should come out to 16 battery replacements. And if he has owned the car for 8 years: That's a new battery every 6 months...along with a new motor with every other battery change.
That's twice as impressive.
So much for that "low maintenance " statement.
And I thought my annual oil change was bad...(not really)
So let's crunch a few more numbers, if your still able....
Charging times and mile range per charge:
Another search revealed 400 miles per charge on Testlas. And that's the high side
With a 120V system it takes 12 hours to charge a battery that has traveled 400 miles. That works out to roughly 1/2 the day or week or month or year spent charging. Let's keep it simple and use one day for this calculation.
If the range is 400 miles per charge and he has 12 hours that it's not on charge that means he can average 33.3 mph.
Let's call it 33mph and let also say he averages 66mph for 6 hours of driving. That gives him 6 hours to not be driving and doing other life functions.
So that's 400 miles per our 24 hour day if he drives 6 hours at 66mph.
400 miles per day, per charge X 30 days per month. That's 12,000 miles per month. Do the math to double check me here. I don't want to lose anybody.
12,000 miles per month X 12 months gives us 144,000 miles per year.
Considering the car is 8 years old:
That's 144,000 X 8 = 1,152,000 miles in 8 years. That's not considering the motor change every year and battery change every 6 months.
Granted I'm not a whiz-bang at numbers, but what's being claimed and what the numbers add up to don't leave much time for anything but charging and driving.
And the piled up junk motors and stack of wasted batteries, sure ain't a reduction in pollution.
But, I'm sure it will make Guinness World records....for waste..

 

That's 12,000 miles per month. Do the math to double check me here. I don't want to lose anybody.
12,000 miles per month X 12 months gives us 144,000 miles per year.
Considering the car is 8 years old:
That's 144,000 X 8 = 1,152,000 miles in 8 years. That's not considering the motor change every year and battery change every 6 months.
Granted I'm not a whiz-bang at numbers, but what's being claimed and what the numbers add up to don't leave much time for anything but charging and driving.
And the piled up junk motors and stack of wasted batteries, sure ain't a reduction in pollution.
But, I'm sure it will make Guinness World records....for waste..

In Canada, 20,000km / year is more or less the average. The single problem I see is that in a 8 year contract with the bank the owner might need to change the battery 1 or 2 times during 160,000km made at the end of the car payment. Up North where I am there are no electrical stations to charge the electric cars and on top of that when you have 5-6 months of -20C and lower the switch to EV is not feasible. I am not against EV at all, they are great in regions where the winter is a colder autumn in the worst case scenario or where the EV is used as a "luxurious" local transportation. In some of the big cities, parking in downtown is as expensive as paying for another car - been there, done that, get rid of the car and use city transportation.

 

Draven O,
You are correct. In fact, in the vast majority of the North America continent, the ev is not pratical.
But just like posting 2 million mile, one offs, then trying to make it sound like that's the norm, certainly diminishs any credibility to claims of any form of better.
The odometer photo I posted is my odometer and that IS the norm. And I still have my original motor and manual transmission.
When I bought my truck 20+ years ago, the salesmen even mentioned, If you take care of them, they'll get 200K to 300k easy.
That's public demand driving the market.
Not government dictating your option of ev or pedal.

 

Hydrogen is definitely an option but isn't particularly energy dense in terms of cubic space and not all that crash safe even compared to batteries.
Benefits are that you can produce it anywhere with power and water.
Seems most useful as a range extender for an EV platform.

 

Agreed Grantmac. As long as you don't need to actually do the mining and destroy ecosystems I vote Hydrogen - the mining is not done with electric powered engines and it will not be done in long time from now. IMO, the entire changing movement should start from the big engines used in exploitation up, not from the luxury cars down. But it is what it is. Still electricity is produced 40% using coals. Saying the EV are clean, it is a matter of speaking. The EV are a solution for big agglomerations to reduce the smog, but not a realistic answer at global level.

 

Agreed Grantmac. As long as you don't need to actually do the mining and destroy ecosystems I vote Hydrogen - the mining is not done with electric powered engines and it will not be done in long time from now.

Hydrogen fuell cell tech looks great, I've been tracking it for a while. The Toyota Mirai will do 640km or so on a fill. But it's a way away yet as a broad solution for passenger vehicles due to hydrogen supply itself. No charge-at-home for Hydrogen and hardly any stations run it yet.

I'm all ears for Hydrogen when I can pull up at an 'H Station' and fill up in my region and some of the safety issues have been ironed out. In the meantime I'm down for EVs as they are, with sodium (Na) ion already entering the market.Looks like a good middle ground here, salt mining is not too heinous on the water table nor at end of life.

The Li-On in the phone in which I wrote this, my drills and other tools, my lady's headphones, kid's Nintendo, our laptops and 10 other things should all see competition from Na-Ion sooner than later I reckon. Awesome.

 

Mining for battery minerals isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the pollution of the petroleum industry and we have things like sodium around the corner which is able to be produced without mining at all.

Generation is an issue but we have the solutions there too, just not the willpower to use them.

 

when we go to nuclear power (AND can recycle the fuel) i figure interstate highways will be done just like the slot cars/tracks lots of us had as kids. pull out onto the highway, lower your contacts and lane peg, and hit cruise control while you read the paper. no steering, held in lane. no battery drain, you're running off the power in the lanes like a subway. your GPS will keep you from getting speeding tickets by slowing you to meet local codes.(some IC cars on the market now already have alerts if you are speeding) reduced wrecks/lower fatalities/cheaper insurance. probably be dull as Wednesday nights in small towns, but...

 

Lots of these around Paris and pretty much all other large French cities. These are street-side rentals. Swipe, hop in, press a button and drive. Just one of several companies competing in this space. I mention here to back up what I was saying earlier about Japanese players really being smart about it, pushing into the utility EV space. It's not all about good looking and driving cars, or even your about town SUV.

This is the most full I've seen the charging stations on that particular stand, normally all booked out.

Goes against any notion of EVs not being in public demand. You see the same in Berlin and many other European capitals. The EU is about 440 million people, just to indicate how influential this is set to be on a global scale, with huge pushes already into Asia with the same streetside rentals. As I took these photos two EVs went past, including an electric scooter.

Here's hoping the new gen of Na-Ion batteries can swap out the Li-On one day, as hoped, at least for the city scope vehicles. In any case, that's a lot less carbon in the air, less carcinogens in our bloodstreams, less heavy metal particulates oxidising in our kids brains.

Speaking first hand EVs of all shapes and sizes have already made a huge and oft cited difference to the air quality here in Paris. Used to pull black soot out of my own nose after an hour out and about. Cannot believe how far we can see from the apartment here compared to just 5 years ago. Bloody awesome.

 

I feel like the people complaining about electric cars were the same as some guy in his horse and buggy complaining about actual cars. The bottom line is, we can't keep producing Petro based transportation, it isn't sustainable at all. Electric cars are a step in a direction. Whether it's the right one is up for debate. With all the current electronic tech that we have, it's sad that so little effort is put into transportation. Something that benefits everyone.