[stevelong]

Huhhh? So you guys are experimenting with eyes open...... Interesting.

 

[buejeger]

I have always shot a bow with only my right eye open...
I am very very very right handed.... but my eyes cant decide.... so I shut my left eye.. always have done.... even with a shotgun on fast flying birds... never been a problem.

Interestingly enough I use my left eye for photography... nothing else.

For gap, semi instinctive, and stringwalking I close my left eye, and I dare to say that I shoot OK.....

Even for 3D, my distance estimation is done way before I am at full draw...
For hunting... again, my eye closes as I reach full draw... not a problem.

If you want to shoot with both eyes open, go for it.. but no one is gonna tell me that I would shoot better with both eyes open.... :2cents:

 

[TradArcher]

There are a lot of reasons for variation in aiming, IMO they mostly have to do with our individual physical differences. Some are simply not able to "see" with both eyes open and look down the shaft. Others can't close one eye, they also simply can not perform that task....

Rod's first and second post is spot on. Being both an old and long time competitive rifle and pistol shooter, the matter if innate movement is a fact of life. We all have a built in degree of it due to our muscle and skeletel structure and the way we face ourselves toward our intended target. Lateral variation is "adjusted" by a simple shifting of foot position, while vertical (all else being equal) by a bit of upper body form.

For the firearms competitors, accepting their "minimum arc of movement" is a fact of life. Realizing the "what" and "how much" is useable in putting more shots in the "X".

Tom

 

[the other DWS]

As Rod said
"actually your bow arm move(s) the same amount you only increased the ability to see the movement.....THE MOVEMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE! ......When scopes became popular on target sights, a lot of the oldtimers, tried them and said the same thing...that !@~%@#%# scope makes me move all over target....truth is, with magnification, they now had the means to see how much they always wobbled on target and why their scores hadn't been up to par in several years."

And if you really want to mess up your head, tape a laser pointer to your riser.
I remember fairly early in the compound days someone came up with a laser bow sight. it was basically a laser pointer in a bracket that could be adjusted with a couple set screws. Seemed like a good idea at the time, until you put it on a bow and actually tried to shoot it at a small target at anything over 15 yards. that jitterbugging little red dot was impossible to control and its movement destroyed your anchor/release reflex. You never got the right visual to let go and either punched the release in frustration or let down. It might have worked for "min. of deer" 15 yard tree stand gimmie shots---maybe for a guy who needed the latest and greatest. it was moot because MI banned them along with other electrical or electronic illuminated sights.

I use a laser-level to align my wind-flag setup for 100 and 200 yard schuetzen matches. Using its magnetic base to mount it to the rifle barrel it is well nigh impossible to hold the laser dot on the 2'x2' 100 yard target backer or the 4x4 one at 200. too much induced movement and trying to "hold/force it steady" just adds more movement. ( The laser "sights" on defensive handguns are designed for close range and have much larger dots)

 

[Jeff Roark]

Rod or Tom,

Have you found that breath control can help to reduce the movement that we have? I was taught this in the Marine Corps. We would find our natural point of aim, shut our eyes, take a big deep breath, release the breathe and then open our eyes. If we were still on the bullseye we slowly squeezed the trigger until the rifle fired.

If after the breath and release we were not on target we adjusted our postion and followed the same steps again until we found our natural point of aim.

 

[the other DWS]

Breath control does help settle things down and if done right helps the blood brain oxygen thing. Its a core basic in rifle and handgun sports, and I am fairly sure that FITA archers, the embodyment of deliberate archery shooting do it on a regular basis.
Most folk wind up doing it to some extent consciously or not on a target range. Its when you get in the woods shooting on a more reflexive basis, or on moving targets it presents a problem.

Aiming, or better yet, consciously trying to hit the target, is just made up of SO dang MANY different components and factors

 

[Allen]

As some of you know I shoot both recurves and target compounds. On my compound, I use a 6X scope and a clarifier peep so that my old eyes can clearly see the target.

The main thing that I have to do to avoid being bothered by the movement is to not care about it. Accept it and shoot my form. It's the same with my recurves.

If I start to think about the movement. I've lost focus on aiming and it's time to let down.

Allen

 

[Sam Dunham]

I may be somewhat controversial with this but I'm gonna say it. There are those that have worked their form so much that it has become ingrained. There are those like myself that are still working the fine points of their form to refinement.I believe from what I have gleaned here over the years is that there are actually two kinds of progressed or advanced shooters. The first being those who have worked the fine points of their form to refinement and settled on exactly how their form sequence and application should be and then ran it on the bale enough to have ingrained to the point that it is subconscious. This shooter is totally satisfied with How his form is done and now just needs to run his daily drills to maintain it. This shooter is at the subconscious level with his form and is now free to let the shot run itself and just aim.

Then there is the second guy that is me. We are still deciding what refinements need to be integrated and are still working on "Exactly" how our form needs to be refined and "set in stone". Until we reach the level that the first shooter has reached, we may run the shot a bit consciously. I am working my form until it is good enough to be sub conscious. Until I reach that level, I will be as I have heard said, "Consciously checking" to make sure it is correct. Once I get there, I will be free to refine my aiming and be a better shot!

 

[TradArcher]

Jeff,
First of all... Semper Fi!
Breathing (or more correctly stated, correct breath control)can certainly aid in your shooting! In brief and in firearms terms, both oxygenating your lungs and most efficient use of your respiratory pause can do a lot for one's shooting.

Tom

 

[barebowguy]

I have always shot guns or bows with left eye closed. while gaping I do not notice a lot of movement with the arrow tip but I know it is there because when I get to a 50 yard target and am point on I can see the movement. what works for me is to not let that movement bother me

 

[steve morley]

this might help

 

[TradArcher]

Eyes both open or one closed has varying ramifications based on the endevour undertaken. In hunting (without a laser rangefinder) range estimation is simply not possible without the use of both eyes. IMO one severely limits oneself when engaging moving targets like clay bird shooting. The combined use of initially using both for range estimation and aiming solution and then one eye for "refined" visual ability may be a solution but runs some risk... Any cross dominant archer will likely admit that in using the combined "method" has on some occasion closed the "wrong eye" which resulted in lateral shift of the intended target.

Regarding bbg's response, whenever anything distracts the archer/shooter from being immersed in aiming, there is likely a bad result forthcoming.

Tom

 

[Seven Arrows]

this might help

Wow!

I couldn't have said it better!

Thanks! That was fun!

 

[rusty craine]

The real difference is out side of 30 yds. inside of 30 I can kinda go on autopilot. when the point starts getting up in the way then i can really open up a group. there is no ratio between my 30 yd groups and my 60yd groups.

i am sure most of it is form but some of it has to do with aiming. now I have to to put the point on a spot. that gets a lot harder for me. even in stringwalking where I aim the point I never aim the point exactly. as long as it is under the spot i need to hit my brain is ok (well if it ever is ok). when I have to push the point on to the spot...it ain't as happy. Practice is helping but i really have to focus.

I tried one eye vs both eyes today. thinking about it was not good for me. I think I just concentrate with my right eye and my left eye just goes along with the plan


Wind sucks aiming or not.

rusty

 

[TradArcher]

Rusty, I use to feel the same way about the wind, that is until I was told by a very outstanding competitor (it was a 2700 conventional pistol match) that most usually just quit trying in the wind. If I wanted to "win" it would behoove me to work harder to alter my form some to accommodate it and take advantage of the intermittent nature of the wind. Once I took on the attitude of "dealing with it", while everyone's scores suffered some... mine suffered less! Nobody likes the wind but Quitting= Loosing.

Tom

 

[Sam Dunham]

Being able to "Dope" the wind is the determiner at Camp Perry.

 

[Brad B]

I know when shooting a rifle offhand that I have a terrible time holding anywhere close to steady. Always have, I guess always will. One thing I have found is that if I am swinging on a target, a running coyote for instance, that there is no shaking in my crosshairs. I can hold as "steady" on a running yote at 150 yards off hand as I can if using a good rest on the same running yote. It's the trying not to move that's the problem for me. It's also not perceived movement, or lack of the perception of it. It's a real, tangible difference. If I could somehow translate that muscle control over to a stationary target, I'd be hard to contend with with anything that launches a projectile. Anyone have any thoughts on how to accomplish this?

 

[TradArcher]

Brad, I believe the combination of good form (even if it's moving laterally), controlling your breathing to your max advantage(called respiratory pause) and having the right "aiming solution" are what make it happen. If a shooter is fighting to stay "in position" then the overall body position needs adjustment. If one can point one's weapon (firearm or bow) at a target eyes open, then close them momentarily.... and not drift off target, that is an indication of good body position. Finally, there's only one kind of human being that exhibits no movement..... a dead one. Everyone elses moves due to muscular-skeletal stress and heart beat.... accept your minimum arc of movement and continue to run your shot! Good Luck!

Tom