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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the other side of the coin from a running thread, got a stinky question.

What do you do when you actually observe cheating?

Case in point. Had a lady that shows up at most of our trad shoots and she always was finishing in the top five. Except that when she was in shootoffs, she always failed horribly. Missing shot shots etc.

Couple years ago a group of us were behind her group and noticed something odd. When she would shoot, and totally miss a target, a couple she always shot with would say shoot again, sometimes several times till she hit it. A lady was in our group started keeping tabs, on 25 targets she had 6 complete first time misses. After scores were turned in the lady in our group checked and her card had all scoring shots,,,,no misses.

Now I know what happened after that lady in our group found out about not scoring the misses.

How would you have handle it?
 

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Several years ago in the open class that I shot at the time, there were a couple of groups that always shot great at local shoots. The person keeping score never left the stake. They used binoculars and scored the arrows from there.

I never said anything about it. Always beat them at bigger shoots or where their group was split up.


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I guess I have a different take on all this "cheating" stuff.

Yea, I guess I've seen some over the years, but really and truly, unless I'm shooting for some serious money, I don't really pay attention to what anyone else is doing. I don't make my living at it, it's not life or death, it's a game, a hobby. I figure I'm going to shoot what I'm going to shoot regardless of what anyone else does. If it's good enough to win, great, if it's not, well that's great too.

For me, life's a little too complicated to worry about whether or not somebody's cheating in an archery tournament I'm participating in. In the grand scheme of things, it matters very little.

If I learned one thing in life, it's that people generally get what they got coming to them. I'm a firm believer in Karma, and sometimes it's a bitch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh it was reported to a range official right at the start of the shootoff in front of about 350 people. The lady who reported it/ saw it, can call hogs in the next county without using an amplifier
 

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Honesty is important 100% of the time, doesn't matter if it's for fun or money. Another issue is that she's not only cheating the group she's cheating herself. If she was not turning in a scorecard and/or not causing a backup or it's someone's young child shooting along I let them have their fun and keep my thoughts to myself. When you start putting numbers on paper things change IMO.
 

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You have to treat everyone the same when you see a violation and stop the car. I knew before I ever got out whether or not I was gonna write a ticket. I take the same approach in most areas of my life so therefore I would report the issue immediately and take care of it. You may not be popular but once you get past not caring about about being a Hero, your well on your way to doing a good job.;)
 

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I think it's a shame when someone will cheat themselves out of their own integrity for a simple award. In my mind if a person doesn't have the maturity to play the game according to the rules then they shouldn't be playing it.
Imagine you are that archer who is always 5-10 points back from 1st place and you are working your butt off to get that win. How would you feel? Would you just quit? Why do we try to keep archers around who have no respect for the rules while watching the honest ones never return?

-Grant
 

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I think it's a shame when someone will cheat themselves out of their own integrity for a simple award. In my mind if a person doesn't have the maturity to play the game according to the rules then they shouldn't be playing it.
Imagine you are that archer who is always 5-10 points back from 1st place and you are working your butt off to get that win. How would you feel? Would you just quit? Why do we try to keep archers around who have no respect for the rules while watching the honest ones never return?

-Grant
They need to be busted DQ'ed and sent packing.
 

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On the other side of the coin from a running thread, got a stinky question.

What do you do when you actually observe cheating?

Case in point. Had a lady that shows up at most of our trad shoots and she always was finishing in the top five. Except that when she was in shootoffs, she always failed horribly. Missing shot shots etc.

Couple years ago a group of us were behind her group and noticed something odd. When she would shoot, and totally miss a target, a couple she always shot with would say shoot again, sometimes several times till she hit it. A lady was in our group started keeping tabs, on 25 targets she had 6 complete first time misses. After scores were turned in the lady in our group checked and her card had all scoring shots,,,,no misses.

Now I know what happened after that lady in our group found out about not scoring the misses.

How would you have handle it?
The answer is easy. Bust up the group. If it's not a fun shoot. In the above example the whole group is cheating. Just my .2.
Dan
 

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In NZ you let the organisers know then you get crucified and vilified for being a poor sport for the next 2 years.
We have a whole club here that supports it's very well known cheats and it effects every competition they host and it even crept into K3D until I had an up front and very personal chat with the cheat that was shooting in the longbow division at the time.
I can tell you one thing, some people in that club might want to call me unsporting, but that little shite is not one of them anymore.

John.
 

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One of the reasons I enjoy WA3D and Field, Judges walking the course checking the groups, they will pull you up on the smallest thing. It makes shooting more enjoyable knowing you're playing in a fair field.

I get a little frustrated with IFAA, the shooting isn't so bad as the groups self regulate pretty well but the Bow inspection is becoming a joke, I've seen officials pass their own countrymen with obvious equipment violations and stop others,
 

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in golf its a "mulligan" as I recall. In most shooting sports, its shots fired that are counted. However in one antique singe shot rifle sport I participate in regularly, it is only the shots "on the paper" that are counted. We regularly shoot at a "sighter target" posted along side the "for-record" target to check out wind drift changes. (we once had a guy shoot a perfect 250 10x--on his sighter target!)

I think I'd simply have quietly asked them, "Do you realize that according to the match rules, you are supposed to record your first shot ONLY, follow up shots are not counted (or allowed)" Thus giving them the benefit of the doubt and let them save a little face by playing dumb and then correct their behavior; rather than run-off a group of match participants
However if the behavior is not corrected right away and they continue to turn in false score cards I'd blow the whistle on them
 

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At our club,we quit giving out trophies because of the cheating. I can give you an example. We kept track of all the targets with a 12 ring. You would not believe how many people scored 12's on targets that didn't have one. The trouble is that clubs put on these shoots to raise money. Nothing is said about cheating so those cheaters will still come back to spend their money. Dick
 

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... or it's someone's young child shooting along I let them have their fun and keep my thoughts to myself. When you start putting numbers on paper things change IMO.
OK you've hit a pet peeve. If there's a cub class, and a cub stake, and you're turning in score cards, cubs should shoot from that stake.

If you want your kid to just shoot for fun, then don't turn in their card.
 

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OK you've hit a pet peeve. If there's a cub class, and a cub stake, and you're turning in score cards, cubs should shoot from that stake.

If you want your kid to just shoot for fun, then don't turn in their card.
Yeah is pisses my kids off to no end that I score the cards straight up and make them shoot from the right stakes. Yet they see other kids doing anything but.

I figure it builds character.

Matt
 

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in golf its a "mulligan" as I recall.
Mulligans are a joke. That's all I got to say about that.

I guess I have a different take on all this "cheating" stuff.

Yea, I guess I've seen some over the years, but really and truly, unless I'm shooting for some serious money, I don't really pay attention to what anyone else is doing. I don't make my living at it, it's not life or death, it's a game, a hobby. I figure I'm going to shoot what I'm going to shoot regardless of what anyone else does. If it's good enough to win, great, if it's not, well that's great too.

For me, life's a little too complicated to worry about whether or not somebody's cheating in an archery tournament I'm participating in. In the grand scheme of things, it matters very little.

If I learned one thing in life, it's that people generally get what they got coming to them. I'm a firm believer in Karma, and sometimes it's a bitch.
I agree with JOEU completely. If they want the ribbon that bad they can have it. I'm competitive, but not to the point of letting it ruin my life. I've been cheated by the best, but I know the real truth. :)
 

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Not sure if proper followup of a complaint but yrs ago I had a guy call me a cheater (behind my back). Protest caused the host club's prez (new guy) to come to the shop I shot for. Owner talked to him. Was told afterward I was to attend the next shoot and shoot with the Prez.

I did.

Had shot there for a few years, only a few new members I did not know. Wasn't the prez that complained, never knew who it was.

Smiling, I accepted the 1st place plaque and told them all.........I'd never shoot there again. Nobody stuck up for me, I didn't need to be around a group of such poor character.

And I got in my Jeep and left.

Screw 'em.

Funny, that club soon fell apart. Geeee, I wonder why with all those great guys there LOL.
 
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