[Sneaky Fox]

Hi all,

I'm currently shooting an excel riser with tradtech limbs, and I'm considering a second ilf setup. Since I shoot off the shelf and just want a simple ilf riser, I was originally thinking of a warf. Looking around at different bows, I started wondering how much practical difference there would be between a warf and a beginner 23 inch ilf riser like a Cartel xpert, an axiom, pse summit, or even a kap trex. I know they lack the adjustment features of some higher end risers, and I've heard that some are only rated up to a certain weight of limb. Has anyone tried a more trad setup with any of these? I'm thinking a Cartel xpert and a can of spray paint might make a nice bow, if I can't find a good warf in the future.

Thanks!

 

[Harpman]

Off the bat, I'd say that a Black Bear WARF will be stiffer than the risers that You listed...I have a KAP T-Rex riser, I mounted a set of ILF limbs on it that were around 47# at my draw length...I can feel the riser flex...The Proline, and Black Bear WARF risers are pretty beefy.....Jim

 

[crunch]

I'm currently shooting an Axiom. Only 42#, but very nice to shoot for the price for sure. Shot a PB with it.

 

[Sneaky Fox]

I figured the flex and a max poundage might be an issue. I guess those are probably the biggest differences, other than weight/mass.

Crunch: are you shooting off the shelf with the axiom, by any chance?

 

[Sam Dunham]

Hoyt Pro Vantage riser makes a 23 inch riser and boy they are all beef and thick. I am building two right now, one for me and another fella here. I am adding some lead to the bottom pocket and they should really be the "Nuts" for a stiff Target riser. Kicked back with a lot of deflex in the handle section and a great long draw riser.

 

[Sneaky Fox]

Thanks for the info Sam! Maybe ill be on the lookout for one.

 

[the other DWS]

Because of the flex, and weight/adjustment limits; I think with most of the entry-level factory ILFs you are self-limiting your potential development and use. Often the grips area is a bit cramped for adult male hands as well.
I have one, a customized W&W Mizar and it very seldom is used anymore except as a loaner to people interested in giving trad-archery a try.
a good warf will be a lifetime investment

 

[crunch]

Yes, I'm shooting it off the shelf.

 

[Grantmac]

Hoyt Pro Vantage riser makes a 23 inch riser and boy they are all beef and thick. I am building two right now, one for me and another fella here. I am adding some lead to the bottom pocket and they should really be the "Nuts" for a stiff Target riser. Kicked back with a lot of deflex in the handle section and a great long draw riser.

Does the Pro Vantage have the sight window which is wider right at the plunger hole?

-Grant

 

[sylvan]

In my opinion, it all depends on what you consider low end. I'd take your excel over most of the WARFs I've seen.

I guess it depends on who makes them but some of the WARFs I've seen weren't even close to being in alignment.

 

[Nuthatch]

Here is the site window of a ProForce which is similar to the ProVantage.

 

[Sam Dunham]

Does the Pro Vantage have the sight window which is wider right at the plunger hole?

-Grant

Yessir, I'll post a picture of the sight window.

 

[Hookeye]

If wanting to keep shooting off the shelf I'd steer clear of a Warf. Grip is too low from the shelf IMHO.

Just got an old Pearson riser and thought about putting some Samick Sage limbs on it as a cheapy, but the shelf is just creepin' me out.

Buddy has a 45# set of limbs on his Excel 21"............for that $ I don't think they can be beat, plus you can change grips a bit easier if you want, a warf might take some further customization.

 

[Hookeye]

I do like the grey, brown, black camo of the old Hoyt Provantage risers though

 

[Sam Dunham]

If wanting to keep shooting off the shelf I'd steer clear of a Warf. Grip is too low from the shelf IMHO.

Just got an old Pearson riser and thought about putting some Samick Sage limbs on it as a cheapy, but the shelf is just creepin' me out.

Buddy has a 45# set of limbs on his Excel 21"............for that $ I don't think they can be beat, plus you can change grips a bit easier if you want, a warf might take some further customization.

Maybe you should watch and read the Warfing Wall here? Many of us who shoot Warfs, do so off the shelf and we modify the shelf to do so very easily and on many of them it is as easy as a furniture pad or some velcro.

Also,,please tell us why the grip is too low from the shelf? Do you know that there are 15 or 20 or more old compound risers that can be warfed to ILF?

 

[Dave Holquist]

I used to have a 21" Excel riser. Compared to my BB warf with weighted lower pocket, it was a real lightweight.

21" Excel = 1.78#
23" Excel = 1.94#
BB Warf = 3.1# including a springy rest

The BB warf sits fairly neutral in the hand, whereas the Excel will tip back toward the shooter. The BB warf can easily be adapted to shoot off the shelf. IMO, the one downside of the BB is that there are very few grip options. At the end of the day, it's really all about what you want in a bow.

 

[Grantmac]

Yessir, I'll post a picture of the sight window.

That is unfortunate because it wouldn't be legal for competition. It would be considered an aiming aid to the best of my knowledge.

-Grant

 

[Sam Dunham]

They have a lot centershot.

 

[DanaC]

There is a third option - watch for a deal on a used better-quality ILF riser.

 

[the other DWS]

There are too-many bad/sad WARFed bows floating around. and they have given a bad impression of the genre.

Many of us have gotten the bug to DIY one of two. Unfortunately too many of us (myself included) don't have the skills, tools, and in depth understanding of bow geometry and dynamics to select an appropriate riser and execute the work in a proper manner.
one of the big problem is getting things aligned in all 3 dimensions. is is especially difficult with the cast risers that may have warps and twists and due to the casting and cooling shrinkage. An experienced machinist can put one on his dead level and plumb indicator block, and determine what and how to machine off to get both limb pockets aligned, true, and straight with perfectly equal base plane angles. You can't do this by simply JB-Welding a set of "plates" into the pockets.

As a result there are more than a few WARFS bought/sold/traded that are less than perfectly well done. They may well function adequately for a less skilled and knowledgable shooter, but all to often they just result in a bad experience and they end up getting put on a trading blanket or get Ebayed to another unsuspecting victim, leaving another bad warf-taste in someone's mouth.