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Discussion Starter #21
If you want a comprehensive reference that can organize your learning and fill in the blanks as well, I can recommend this book highly:
And if you can find a coach that actually shoots stick bows, a little instruction will go a long way.
I will definitely look into this. Thanks so much


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It's been said that you can tune only as good as you can shoot. I agree.

When it comes to up and down on the nocking point, there's a problem when the nocking point is too low. The rear of the arrow hits the shelf and kicks up making it look too high. The fender archery link shows what low looks like, but it doesn't address the too low. If you look at the first picture with arrows in the target, you'll see the bare shaft above the fletched. Here's the important part. THE BARE SHAFTS HAVE THE NOCK BELOW THE POINT. If you see that bare shaft above the fletched with the nock ABOVE the point, it hit the shelft and kicked up.

One other important point. If you get a bare above a fletched, you're very close. Move the nocking point one strand of serving. Lot of people move it an 1/8 which is too far and they might as well start over.

Another reason I suggest the fender archery 'bare shaft planing' is better is because it's much less prone to false readings, which are the most frustrating and probably most expensive problem in archery.

Bowmania
 

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Looks like you figured out the aiming, congrats.

Re- spine: What Bowmania said... it is way way too easy to have nock low. I have been fooled several times...

I was having very similar issue recently on a bow. So I experimented with spine stiffness of fletched arrows. I dont find that varying stiffness of fletched arrows moves POI significantly. I am sure it moves it a tiny bit.. and for guys shooting 70yds and shooting very consistently t likely matters. At 20yds barebow not so much for me. Various barebow guys have tested online and shown videos showing "not much difference" (Greg at 3D archery has one, others...) I ran 15 arrows, three each, 400-800 through a bow for a few ends to see what happened. Some with tiny vanes even.. just to see. I couldn't see any significant difference, with a 6" average group at 20 yds and the stiff and weak spines pretty randomly sorted in the bunch. I suppose if I ran experiment a 100 times, documented and tracked each spine impact point, etc I might find something. But I quit figuring that spine was going to move fletched arrow impact significantly given my own inherent accuracy, determined that issues I was seeing on my bow was ultimately a form problem and maybe a grip difference. So just started working on my consistency and form a bit with the new grip. Getting better now. I think I had my hand position wrong on the grip, way it is set up it doesn't like a low or medium wrist grip unless you nail your hand position. The slight torque post shot pushed arrow to side a bit.

The funny part is I was setting up two new bows at the same time.. one was going left, other right. Funny, right? Or funny, left?
 

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I knew I was tuning my nock incorrectly when I was finding despite my nock being low the arrows were hitting nock-high. I had my suspicions they were bouncing off the shelf and had this confirmed when my nock was set so low that my fletchings were being ripped off.

It was fun to learn, and actually super beneficial to be able to so clearly and tangibly see a result of my arrow leaving the bow so badly.
 

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While tuning the Black Hunter Lonbow at 12 feet from the target, bare shaft and fletched arrows are impacting high and left by 2-4”(as seen in the pic for reference). When bareshaft tuning the nocks are looking straight back at the shooter. I feel as if my form is def not perfect but is consistent(can tell by the grouping). The issue I’m concerned with is that my grouping is to the left and I would like to bring the grouping closer to center(aiming point with tip of arrow).
DW 50# at 28”
DL 27”
Arrows are GT Traditionals 400 spine at 29” with 250 grains up front.
I’ve tried lighter weight up front, twisting my bow arm wrist inward(def not comfortable), adjusting the brace height, cutting away some of the material from the elevated rest(bear weather rest), etc. and no matter what the grouping is still to the left by 3-4 inches. Any help on what can be done to overcome this is highly appreciated.
Many thanks,
~Danny

View attachment 2736
I find the Black Hunter's really easy to mess up with grip torque. I too was also getting weirdly consistent off-grouping until I reworked my grip. It was confusing as I had dead straight bare shafting right up to 25m. Paper tuning too would show my arrow tuning was dead-on. Yet the groups were all perfectly off.

To shoot mine well I also have to have near-perfect frame (esp focused on skeletal load bearing) and reach consistent back-tension and follow-through such that the bow will dance forward on release, nothing else. Otherwise, this bow has a higher likelihood of arrow->shelf contact than many other bows I've shot and/or own. Being so light this bow very easily torques. Putting on a bow-quiver makes it a less 'nervous' shoot, albeit a nervous bow will teach you a lot.

Once dialed in its a marvel at the price.
 
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