I'm rather bad at estimating distance... So to help train my brain and eyes, I guess the distance, then use a laser rangefinder to "correct" my estimate. (not for competition use of course)

For an aimer, knowing the distance and hence a better estimate of holdover / under for all varying distance is a good thing.

 

Learn the distances.

 

I'd tell them to start by estimate distances and shoot for the middle of the target. Don't worry about score until you're comfortable/confident about hitting the target and not losing arrows.

Then work on hitting the middle of the eight, which will be off center on many targets.

Third phase would be shooting for the ten ring.

Starting out chasing tens can lead to confidence-destroying misses.

I'm still at the stage where I frequently shoot for the center of the eight. Better to give up two points than five or ten!

 

I'd suggest practicing range estimation by picking a spot on your day-to-day walk, estimating the yardage, and confirming as you walk past it. Next, a good small pair of binoculars helps tremendously. You'll never hit a ten if you don't know where it is and it's often not where you'd expect. Never been a 12 chaser, if I can hit 10s most every shot I'll win more tournaments than I'll ever lose...

Added: Better learn to pick a tiny spot too and on an often difficult to see target. There's a world of difference as they don't put spots on them out there....

 

Buy a range finder.
Spend as mich time using your range finder to learn distance estimation as you do shooting your bow.

 

The best way to learn is to just go to as many shoots as you can. I also learned to pace off yardage. After I shoot I pace it off and it helps me remember yardage béter. The other thing to do is learn a yardage like 10 or 20yds. Then you can picture that and imagine doubling it or halfing it. On steep downhill shots if there are trees I will find a tree close to the target and guess my range level to the tree, that will give you the true distance to shoot for.

 

For IBO events the max is 32-33 yards, ASA is 25. Use a rangefinder to get your bearing and count steps to coordinate this in your mind. Get a deer 3D target and start walking back at 5 yards make a shot, then proceed to 10, then 15 etc. You can also do this in 1 yard increments out to the max yardage. Soon your brain will recognize distance better, and you can visualize the amount of steps it would take you to reach the target. Doing the walkback and shooting is key as well, since you will learn what the sight picture is supposed to look like for a given yardage in the process.

 

It takes time. And looking at a lot of targets. Some of best shooters Judge yardage by looking at the target only. I do that by using first impression of the distance to the target and try to stick within 1 yrd plus or minus of my first impression. Using the ground works Ok but you have to have good depth perception as the farther away you are the more you can be off. Learn body sizes of 3d animals at different distances. And yes I would recommend using a range finder to help learn, but by doing it this way 1.Judge the target 2. Make as good a Form shot you can make 3. Then range the target and see if you were correct or just how far off you were! IMO using the rangefinder before the shot doesn't help you learn cofidence that your first impression was correct!!

You Got to Break some Egg's (Or Miss some Targets) to get better at Judging

Mike

 

Some pretty good 3D IBO 3D shooters have told me how they set up their bows so that they are in the scoring ring even if their estimation is off, at least for IBO type distances. I have not figured how that works, but I have heard if from more than one source. Gary and Sandy McCain were showing me some strategies on how to set up my shots using point to shelf pick a point and learning where to aim on the animal. Again, it was based on building in some tolerance so that I my estimation is off, I am still in the 8. This is kind of like aiming for your average shot in golf, and not your best. It is evident from these conversations, that there are some tricks to the trade that may even be things good 3D shooters don't have to think about any more.

The first thing I did a couple of years ago when I started shooting 3D for fun, was getting a range finder. I used to keep it in the front seat of my car. I practiced while I went around town. I am well prepared if anyone ever wants to setup a 3D in the suburbs.

 

But a good set of binos and use them

Practice range estimation as much as you shoot.

When in doubt add two yards - your always better off missing high.

Learn to aim off marks i.e. Your not shooting the mark your shooting two inches to the left of the mark.

A great drill for this is the tale drill make a cross on your target and practice stacking arrows up down and across the tape.

Shoot as many shoots as you can and shoot with Ben and Allan as often as you can.

 

Shoot as many shoots as you can and shoot with Ben and Allan as often as you can.

I have shot FITA target with Alan quite a few times, but I have never shot in his group at a 3D. It is amazing to watch him drill centers. I was able to shoot a couple of rounds with Ben at the last IBO Western Trad. I really study folks while at shoots (I wonder if my stares creep them out?) I used to study the good California FITA shooters when I was shooting FITA target; guys like Matt Zumbo, Scott McKecknie, Ezra Wheeler, and Dakota Sinclair. I studied Brady Ellison shooting indoors in New Mexico. He is incredibly fluid. It is not only about their form, but also their demeanor while shooting. Ben is very calm are really takes his time.

Then there are exceptions to the rule. I have shot FITA target with Rick McKinney. He looks like he is going to explode out of his shoes when he releases. But he still hits the middle. I have been told that he has always been like that.

California has so many great shooters, both FITA and NFAA. It is great having an opportunity to watch them, and on occasion, shoot with them. I started in FITA because of the strong program in California. Then I discovered NFAA. The shoots at my club will draw similar crowds as our State FITA Outdoor Championships. We don't get the thousands like I hear about some places (not sure what Redding gets), but we do pretty well.

 

I've always thought of yardage as groups of five. It's very easy to learn how far 5 yards is from your location. Then estimate how many groups of 5 it takes to get to your target. I always round up too. I don't compete in 3D, but my practice includes a bunch of it. I use a fast setup, which reduces errors in range estimation. In my experience, faster arrows are more forgiving if you're off even up to 5 yards in range estimation.

 

Assume that a target shooter is an aimer (not instinctive) and has strong fundamentals.

Hank, with all due respect, most of the top 3d shooters (and even a lot of us duffers) are aimers, too, although we may not have sights on our bows.

As many have pointed out, one of the biggest challenges in unmarked 3d is learning to "guesstimate" distance. It's a skill that you must develop and practice frequently. Everyone seems to have their own methodology and little tricks that they use. The second big challenge for any 3d shooter is learning the approximate sizing of the targets and location and size of the scoring rings. Because of the wide assortment of 3d targets a shooter may encounter, this may seem to be a rather formidable task for most spot shooters who typically are used to shooting at half dozen or so target sizes/configurations.

The target shooters that I know who won't shoot 3d are typically afraid of missing targets and losing or damaging expensive target arrows. If that weighs heavy on one's mind, shoot some less expensive arrows while trying to learn the game. A $7-8 arrow probably isn't going to hurt your score much while you're getting up to speed.

 

I'm assuming NFAA Trad rules? In that case getting a useful sight picture with fairly fast arrows will be important. Usually something like a 40-45yd POD with 200-210fps seems to be a winning combination. With the longer distances you definitely won't be able to keep it on the animal with a miss-judge but a longer POD will be a bit more forgiving provided you can deal with the gaps.
I find stringwalking is actually a far harder system to use for unmarked since you are always right at point-on, unless you use a low hold which has some advantages.

As others have said get that rangefinder back out and USE IT!

You don't need a 3D target if you have some cardboard and can draw the scoring rings on it in thin sharpie. This will teach you how to aim at something you can't really see.

-Grant

 

Teach them a few tricks on picking distances, on the ground, tree to tree, ten yard increments, use of distance marked binos "for practice" ,and of course a range finder.
Explain and show the theory of low aiming in the bush and high aiming in the open.
Teach them how to maintain correct alignment for shooting up and down hill.
Get them out to your club and take them on a few rounds of your different courses to get a good idea of how it all works.

John.

 

Learn the targets... When I go for a walk, or anything I am estimating yardages now. I have never been very good at it, but not bad either, so my goal is to shoot more 3D's this year and become better at yardage est. I am pretty good at the 10 yard and 20 yard est, so it just using those to estimate my yardage to the target. Good idea to use your rangefinder when practicing, I have done that after my shot to see how good my estimation was. I have tried the FITA Field est thing for 3D but unless you know all the targets real well its tough. I think Levi M. did something once on estimating yardages and he is one of the best.

 

Great topic. I really suck at range estimating. Yeah I know practice.

But I swear the blackberry bushes jump out and grab my arrows before they hit the target and run off with them.

One of the things I have been experimenting with lately is shooting with a really high nock points. The purpose is to drive my POD down.

Going with a 1-3/16 nock point my POD dropped to 30 yards. With that, the ballistic trajectory has a maximum 12" gap at the target for the whole range of distances out to about 35 yards. The idea here is that if I guess a distance of say 20 yards, and the target really was 25 yards, I would be hitting only 4" below the aiming point, and if the target was 15 yards, I would hit 1" above the aiming point. (at least according to the plots I have made).

The idea here is to reduce the sensitivity to range estimating errors so that I can at least get a 5 instead of having to buy another ACC arrow, and get all frustrated about the range estimating problems is costing me a lot of money, but start to build confidence in range estimating.

But this approach is only valid for the shorter IBO and ASA (or local club) shoots. When shooting the NFAA 3D's, as Grant has pointed out, I will have to use my regular setup because of the distances out to 50 yards or so. But maybe getting better at estimating ranges from 0 to 30 will be one big step forward to getting better at estimating ranges out to 50.

That is what I am doing.

 

The best way to learn to be a top 3d shooter or just satisfy your need is look at what the top shooters do. Then pic the best method that fits you. Then get your butt off the couch and like Matt said shoot as many time as you can with the top shooters. Feed off of them they will help you.

Or ask my wife:luck:

 

You and Sandy gave me some excellent advice. Now I was working on point to rest. I was planning on trying it at the Gene Foster where stringwalking is not allowed. Unfortunately, my work schedule changed and I ended up on call that weekend. The upside is that I bought a used Bernardini Luxor that Sunday. I think I came out ahead. What you and Sandy gave was a strategy that would allow me to hedge my bet, so if my estimate was off, I could stay in the 8 ring. For limited IBO distances it could really help.

I wish I could shoot 90 meters at my house like Matt. Or shoot a 14 target field round in my back yard...no, that is a pipe dream. Nobody would have a 14 target regulation field range at their house.

 

Buy yourself a range finder. Do not practice without it.

 

+1 on Shooting with Alan!! I didn't get to shoot much with Ben when he was in TN...wish I could have.

 

(1) Practice range estimation.

(2) Learn target anatomy.

(3) Bend at the waist for uphill/downhill aiming, twist at the waist when footing is off.

(4) Aim short for uphill/downhill (the distance is the base of the triangle, not the hypotenuse).

(5) Be aware of the arrow trajectory and where it might hit/miss obstructions.

(6) Be willing/able to change body position to get a clearer shot (kneel, stretch away from the stake, etc.) but keep your bow/arm/shoulder frame solid.

(7) Look at the shot a bit and consider illusory factors that may throw off your aim, like shooting across a gully (eye follows the terrain and uses that to estimate distance instead of a straight line to the target), an elk on a flat area with no other reference points looks like a deer and is farther away than you think, tunnel shots can distort distance, etc.

 

And what is this theory of "low aiming in the bush and high aiming in the open"? Could you please put it into words.

 

When under cover or in heavy bush people often shoot over the top.
In wide open country people often shoot short of the mark.
So in the bush it often pays to take a few yards off what you think it is, and in the open you add a few.

John.