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Discussion Starter #1
I have been enjoying volumes 1 - 3 of Masters of the barebow. Interesting stuff. Much knowledge and many skilled shooters showing personalized shooting techniques. But I did get a chuckle over the descriptions of target panic. LOL, only a couple of guys knew what it really was. Of course it can surface in many ways, yet funny to see those who had never had it to describe what they assumed it to be. The funniest one was the description of getting excited and rushing the shot. While that may be a type of panic, it is far from target panic. One guy was funny in saying that he had his stuff under control, that he would never get target panic. LOL, I'm glad for those guys that did not know what they were talking about. Glad that they never experienced it. Hope they never do. To clarify, I am only commenting about the target panic aspect. The rest of the video content was very informative and I very much respect those guys.
 

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I've got one and two,but don't recall much said about TP in those two.
For me target panic came along and ruined an otherwise pretty good day out.
I read a lot about it and I bought a couple of books and a DVD that promised help,but at the end of the day I simply got P'd off with myself and took back control over everything I was doing.
It sounds simple,because it is.
People say you should shoot with an empty mind,well I talk myself through every step of every shot and I maintain full control over what my subconcious wants to do.
I run this show,the thinking me,not the subconcious me.

Anyway back to MBB,,,,great series,two that I still watch on a regular basis.

John.
 

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"The funniest one was the description of getting excited and rushing the shot".

So, you're saying not being able to get to anchor, releasing as your arrow's on target no matter where you're at in your shot sequence is not target panic? Think again.
 

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I once (YEARS AGO)had someone get angry with me discussing my target panic.He actually believed he could catch it reading about it (LOL)
It must be contagious with all that's been written about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
"The funniest one was the description of getting excited and rushing the shot".

So, you're saying not being able to get to anchor, releasing as your arrow's on target no matter where you're at in your shot sequence is not target panic? Think again.
The context of that quote was in a stand, shooting at a live deer. Buck fever, not target panic.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've got one and two,but don't recall much said about TP in those two.
For me target panic came along and ruined an otherwise pretty good day out.
I read a lot about it and I bought a couple of books and a DVD that promised help,but at the end of the day I simply got P'd off with myself and took back control over everything I was doing.
It sounds simple,because it is.
People say you should shoot with an empty mind,well I talk myself through every step of every shot and I maintain full control over what my subconcious wants to do.
I run this show,the thinking me,not the subconcious me.

Anyway back to MBB,,,,great series,two that I still watch on a regular basis.

John.
I don't think it is mentioned in 1 and 2 but in 3, they have each guy talk briefly about it.
 

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Well all I can say is until you get it you have no idea how frustrating it can be,, It is not limited to archery, I shoot competitive skeet for a while until TP ruined my game.. had it bad when I shoot compounds, T Bone Turner helped me overcome it.. came back with trad bows,,, I spent two days with Rod Jenkins… best two day investment I have ever made.. the only way that I can control it is to do my shot sequence step by step and and as Rod teaches to control the shot…now "buck fever" is another story, you have to pick a spot...
 

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I thought target panic was when the target got scared of all those people pointing sharp arrows at it and it screamed and got up and ran! I never understood why I had never seen it happen!?!

:)

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I used to shoot compounds with a release. [25 years ago] There was a time when I not only put my pin on the spot I wanted to hit, but I would just hold it there, relaxed and move it to perfect. Example, if I were shooting at a golf ball size dot, I would keep moving my pin until it was dead center, showing equal reveal around. This was not hard. It is just the precission that came natural. But later, I began to shoot as I assumed others shot. That as soon as their pin touched the golf ball size dot, that they released. I did not wish to do it this way........... And to full blown target panic, leaving out the details of why, how, things tried, etc. All of which I would be glad to explain if asked. But interesting enough, I could put down my release and win more tournaments shooting finger release. Suprisingly, No panic with fingers. The competition was not as great but my scores would be in the top ten of the release shooters. So, I would give up the release for periods of as much as a year. Each time going back to a release, feeling almost cured.... but it would quickly come back. I have a theory, many will disagree, and since many types of target panic exist, it may not be true for all, but I have always thought that because of the extreme amount of blind bale shots as well as 1000's of paper tune shots during my compound tourney days, that this is where it started. I realize that some will say that the blind bale helps their target panic.... but that does not rule out that is where it came from. One of the steps have to come from the subconscience, either aiming or releasing. You can't do both with target panic. I knew Rod Jenkins knew what target panic was when he said something like "one subconscience not trusting the other, checking up on the other." I'm sure he had a good chuckle as well when he saw the others comment on target panic.
 

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Funniest thing( and most illogical to me) is when people deny having it and refuse to try to correct it. I'm not implying that every archer has, or ever will get target panic...but a good friend of mine who hunts with a compound is a prime example. He's a pretty good shot and kills deer...but while target shooting I watch him struggle with a form of target panic and when I tell him what it is he denies it exists lol. His version is where he comes to full draw, anchors and then sometimes,flinches violently. His bow arm goes forward, his draw arm collapses etc.Reminds me of when I was young and shooting rifles or an inline muzzleloader. Someone said I was flinching at the shot...I'd denied it...and then they tricked me and removed the cap from the nipple without me knowing and boy did I realize how much I was flinching...

I have target panic...and I think that those who do will likely always have it and need to keep a tight grasp on managing it to prevent it from sucking the fun out of their shooting. With a compound I had TP in the form of punching my release as soon as I was on target. I hated it and nobody could understand what I was talking about. I told them I CANT help it. I knew something was terribly wrong and found no relief until I began shooting a recurve, and subsequently found this awesome forum. With my stick bows TP rears its ugly head from time to time, in the form of snap shooting. I can hold at anchor without a problem until I want to aim at something and on a bad day its infuriating... Only now, thanks to the experienced people here I can manage it.

After seeing videos from Mr Paranee with his gopro black..I started looking more seriously at them as a training aid. I was being a little cheap not wanting to buy one yet...but with an observant girlfriend, and today being my birthday...I got one now :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Courious, has anyone claiming to be an instinctive shooter ever suffered from target panic? Could you describe it briefly?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I would not even say this if this were a forum of compound release shooters, but I see target panic, a mild form of it at every shoot. Those who can not rest their finger on the trigger but rather hold it off until the shot and then lunge the finger travel over an inch to fire the release. It should be the same as firing a rifle. My son at 13 can shoot a rifle very well, but can not incorporate this into his bow shooting. It is a form of target panic.
 

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Courious, has anyone claiming to be an instinctive shooter ever suffered from target panic? Could you describe it briefly?
Would be interested in your definition of TP and what causes it?

I have studied this subject for years and used to be a so called Snap shooter and while I no longer argue about shooting styles (lost cause) I do have my own theories about the cause's and improper archery or the lack of the a sequence and disciplined training.

So I will be interested to see if you know something About the subject I have not read or heard about?
 

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Target panic, hmmm?? I don't knew what it is but the mind is very complex. The minute you start to think you a rational scientific type and you control your mind, you get evidence that you may not know what you speak of.

I shoot my best scores listening to Mozart. I know it is laughable, makes no sense and could not possible happen.... but it does????
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Would be interested in your definition of TP and what causes it?

I have studied this subject for years and used to be a so called Snap shooter and while I no longer argue about shooting styles (lost cause) I do have my own theories about the cause's and improper archery or the lack of the a sequence and disciplined training.

So I will be interested to see if you know something About the subject I have not read or heard about?
I don't have it shooting finger release so this will not apply well here. And I know that there are many forms of target panic. Here is what my particular issue was. I wanted to put my pin in the center of what I wanted to hit. I used to be able to do this. Very relazed, no hurry, like a rifle shooter aiming at a letter written on a drink can, rather than the can. After a couple years of enjoying this, I began to fire when my pin touched the intended point of impact. I had lost control of relaxed aiming. Although I could still do it if I knew I was not going to execute the shot. So, then comes the subconscience...... the real target panic. My subconscience would not allow me to get on the mark because it knew I would fire before I wanted to. LOL, I can't even spell it. Subconscious. That's better. It, subconscious "A' knew that touching the intended point of impact would cause me subconscious "b" to shoot. So subconscious A and subconscious B were at battle. Subconscious A would fight subconscious B by not letting me raise my bow arm to the intended point of impact. Subconscious A by trying with more increased strength was met equally by more increased resistance. I could do a "push" an overpower but it would be out of form, unrelazed, and never consistant since I would only be firing on the move. I was stuck in what is termed here but used differently as "lollypoping". The power of the subconscious is amazing. Drills, discipline, coaching, form work, etc would not overcome this for me. But I expect that clickers might be a good tool. Another thought that if I ever go back to attempt to overcome it, I would make a circular tape of different variations, unpredictable of "aim...aim... aim... shoot". Never knowing when you will get the green light. Simply aiming until given permission to shoot, not able to predict when, just relaxed until then, concentrating on nothing but aiming. This may not be legal for the range???? Yet I often see people with ear buds in while shooting. This could be a training aid that might have a lasting effect, possible able to go without it, possible adding it occassionally
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't have it shooting finger release so this will not apply well here. And I know that there are many forms of target panic. Here is what my particular issue was. I wanted to put my pin in the center of what I wanted to hit. I used to be able to do this. Very relazed, no hurry, like a rifle shooter aiming at a letter written on a drink can, rather than the can. After a couple years of enjoying this, I began to fire when my pin touched the intended point of impact. I had lost control of relaxed aiming. Although I could still do it if I knew I was not going to execute the shot. So, then comes the subconscience...... the real target panic. My subconscience would not allow me to get on the mark because it knew I would fire before I wanted to. LOL, I can't even spell it. Subconscious. That's better. It, subconscious "A' knew that touching the intended point of impact would cause me subconscious "b" to shoot. So subconscious A and subconscious B were at battle. Subconscious A would fight subconscious B by not letting me raise my bow arm to the intended point of impact. Subconscious A by trying with more increased strength was met equally by more increased resistance. I could do a "push" an overpower but it would be out of form, unrelazed, and never consistant since I would only be firing on the move. I was stuck in what is termed here but used differently as "lollypoping". The power of the subconscious is amazing. Drills, discipline, coaching, form work, etc would not overcome this for me. But I expect that clickers might be a good tool. Another thought that if I ever go back to attempt to overcome it, I would make a circular tape of different variations, unpredictable of "aim...aim... aim... shoot". Never knowing when you will get the green light. Simply aiming until given permission to shoot, not able to predict when, just relaxed until then, concentrating on nothing but aiming. This may not be legal for the range???? Yet I often see people with ear buds in while shooting. This could be a training aid that might have a lasting effect, possible able to go without it, possible adding it occassionally
The guys who have had this form of panic can verify just how amazing the subconscious mind is. LOL, you guys know... How heavy can a bow possibly be?
 

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So would you say that the mind can really only focus on one thing at a time and as it applies to archery it is better to ingrain the sequence and let it run itself in the SC and then the mind is free to just Aim? Or,,,,,,,would you like to switch roles depending on the shooters preference?
 

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1gr8bldr,

You may have already seen this thread. If you haven't it's worth the time to read.

http://tradtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=320818#post320818

If you haven't you've come to some mighty similar conclusions.

The key for me, is deciding what part of the mind controls what part of the shot. Thus controlling what is being thought at the time of the release.

The part of the mind that is involved in the short-cut needs to be given something it deems important to the shot to be doing. Then it's happy and stays out of the way.

One thing to remember about TP is that it's a conditioned reflex. Where A->B->C is short-circuited to A->C.

It's an instinct that is mostly useful but not in archery.

I agree with Sam that good discipline (and a strict shot sequence) will control/prevent it but that's an individual characteristic that some people have as part of their make-up.... and some don't.
 

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So would you say that the mind can really only focus on one thing at a time and as it applies to archery it is better to ingrain the sequence and let it run itself in the SC and then the mind is free to just Aim? Or,,,,,,,would you like to switch roles depending on the shooters preference?
BINGO!!

Pick whichever floats your boat then do it thoroughly and consistently.

A mantra can be used to help to keep your concentration on what it should be on. Some use it, some need it, some don't.
 
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