[sperki]

I struggle with short draw / target panic / snap shooting (I don't really know the differences). I searched the forums and found several great threads. But I want to make sure I can maximize my training time. So here's what it sounds like I should do: 1. Blank bale with really slow, thoughtful form. Do I aim at anything? Even think about aiming? At what distance? 2. Hold my anchor super long, up to 10 seconds. 3. Get a coach...I know...but that's not in the budget. What am I missing? How long do I blank bale before I get to put a target up?

 

[13033]

I practiced form and release by standing in front of an embankment in a gravel pit.

Kept my eyes close, came to full draw and released, still with eyes closed.

Incredible difference in release and form.

Practiced and practiced till it became natural.

No point in aiming with pee poor release and form.

 

[SHTF]

I struggle with this also. Webster I like your advice. So basically its muscle memory your training by doing what you do?

 

[Matt_Potter]

First of all you are not alone - many many top archers including Olympic archers deal and have dealt with TP. It will never totally go away but you can deal with it.

You have to separate the act of aiming from the act of completing your shot. At this point your release is being triggered by your sight picture. So as you are drawing your brain is saying "looks good to me - let it rip" You need to get rid of the sight picture being your trigger - you need to be able to aim without anxiety.

You need to come to anchor aim and then decide on your terms to bring the shot to conclusion. YOU CAN NOT LET SIGHT PICTURE TRIGGER YOUR RELEASE.

My shot runs something like this

set up my shot legs, shoulders ect (not aiming or really looking at the spot at this point)

bring the bow to anchor (very general aiming)

transfer the weight of the bow to my back (still very general aiming)

AIM - get my fine focus and hold it.

Bring my shot to conclusion using expansion as my trigger - I am making a conscious decision to start my expansion based on how steady my aim is. Until I start expansion I can aim for ever or let down it's my call.

Several drills with help

The "Wall Drill" aim and hold on something you don't want to shoot ie a wall. I have a target taped to a cinder block wall I do this with.

Shoot lots and lots of Bale followed by the bridge

Let down lots when you are practicing.

Your not alone lots of people have dealt with it but, you have to deal with it. TP ain't going away on it's own.

Matt

 

[TradArcher]

What I offer is a condensation of Matt P, as well as a bit of a supplemental..

Have, develop (if you don't already) a consistent form… The form, itself is best practiced on the bale. What many don't understand is that the bale is not in and of itself a cure all. It MUST be used in conjunction with a second drill called "The Bridge".

The Bridge (in brief) is a drill in which an archer sets a specific number of days/wk he'll shoot and number of arrows. The distance at which the arrows are delivered is close to start and "progress" in terms of increasing yardage in achieved when the total number of arrows have been executed in perfection. (There's more to be said… but I want to be brief.)

The Wall drill is, as Matt P mentioned is also a respectable drill in learning the bounds of one's physical wearwithall as well as shot control; though in and of itself it is NOT a cure for TP.

TP can be discussed ad infinitum!…but IMO, it boils down to trying to squeeze two thoughts into our coconut computer simultaneously…AND ya can't do that! IT MUST be one at a time!

As a final note, the concept of Bale-Bridge, and Wall Drill are all the original thoughts of Len Cardinale. (Archery Hall of Fame, Bowhunter Hall of Fame, original P&Y)

Tom

 

[sperki]

OK, this seems like a great start. I've already dropped to a lower weight recurve to focus on form. I can go to the range and blank bale. Should I be looking for groups, or anything while doing that? And at what range - does it matter? On days I can't shoot I can certainly do the wall drill.

Matt, your quote about sight picture looking good so shoot is spot on.

I don't really know what the bridge is, but I think I'll start with these 2 exercises for a few weeks and then research the bridge. Will 2 or 3 weeks of the wall and the bale be sufficient before moving on? I can shoot 2-3 times per week, but I can "wall" every day.

Thanks for the help.

 

[kenn1320]

Its said "good" archers never "move on" from the bale. Many of them on here use it on a regular basis. I have delt with what your going through, focus on the back of your riser till you are settled at anchor and then look at the target. This will allow you to get to a solid anchor, but if your like me and shoot based on sight picture and muscle memory, well you wont be on target and wont be able to get on target accurately. If your a gap shooter, you wont have any problem. There is also a drill on Masters of the barebow volume 3 if I recall correctly. Larry Yein explains it. In a nutshell, set a timer for say 8 seconds(a repeating timer is best). You draw and hold while aiming till the timer goes off, let down. Repeat this until your comfortable and allow yourself to shoot every third shot. This teaches your mind its ok to hold, even though the sight picture is right. You can also add a clicker, which helps a ton. You can also do a search and call Joel Turner.

 

[CLICKERMAN]

Sperki,

Give me a call and I will give a few things to think about. I may be able to explain some of the science behind the drills that are mentioned above. I also have a few very specific questions for you that, when answered, will set you on the path to shot control. Great advice by the others that have chimed in on this.

Joel Turner
IRONMIND ARCHERY SYSTEMS
253-686-3623

 

[SHTF]

Ive also thought about throwing on a 1 pin sight on the recurve just to take the aiming out of the equation and to get the form consistant. Any thoughts on this way of thinking?

 

[markliep]

Biggest help for me to date:reducing bow draw weight, drawing/holding with my back & getting better line to the target ( alignment of bow hand forward & elbow behind me) ... Lot of work to do on getting it better but it's decreased those unwanted releases - M

 

[cwehmeier]

Call Clickerman, sure helped me.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Are you saying that you shoot prematurely? Sorry, I'm slow, everybody apparently understood but me

 

[sperki]

Heck yes I shoot prematurely! Builder - I misread your question, sorry.

 

[blakey]

Heck no I don't shoot slow! But I want to because I'm supposed to and I'll shoot better.

Great advice from others here. At our club the coaches get us to go really low recurve (20 lbs or so limbs), or even a club compound, and practice holding on a near target. Just get into the habit. Practice letting down as well. They stress the light limbs. It's hard to hold if you're near your poundage limit. Good luck, I am sure you will overcome it.

 

[TradArcher]

"Good archers never move on from the bale" ~ kenn1320

Kenn, about 35+ yrs ago my mentor Len Cardinale introduced me to the bale, taught me how to use it properly, what to expect in it's use and how it should be utilized in connection with the Bridge drill. Len and I have had hundreds of hours (maybe more) of conversation on the subject of shooting...archery and other; truly a treasure of information!

The bale when understood and properly used is, and will always be the archers best friend.

Tom

 

[kenn1320]

Right Tom, that's what I said in not so many words. Please share some of that bale talk, if you would?

 

[DDD]

Read my posts that I put up for the beginner. Sorry can't remember who posted it.
However, my advice is to stop shooting. I have gone thru some serious times with TP. So far what I have done its worked. I stop shooting. I did this for just about a week, worked on like Matt said shot sequence but not release or expansion or follow thru. Just hold and get a view of your sight picture at different lighting or up or down or right or left movements. You can't decide on how to aim a shot if you can't hold it first. You can do it. Try counting to keep the hold. Feel you back engauging. Ingain the hold. Let down. Its ok. No shooting until you can move anywhere you want and hold looking past the arrow tip. My TP was all sorts of things, but most of all it was timing. I would time the shot. But if I didn't get on target for what ever reason I would shoot the shot. So at lease try this for a week or so.
DDD

 

[Grantmac]

Matt and DDD just gave you the best advice of your shooting career. You need to retrain your brain to understand that it doesn't have to shoot and it can hold as long as you need without feeling anxiety. If you pick up your bow with your subconscious thinking that it will shoot then you are sunk. You need to make it's new goal to hold, then you consciously expand while consciously relaxing the fingers until the string just disappears.

There are archers for whom the Bale does nothing positive and actually causes problems. Many world-level coaches are dead set against using it to develop a shot sequence because it lacks the part of the sequence which causes most of the mental problems. Even in the darkest times of dealing with TP I could execute great shots on the Bale simply because it lacked the one thing I needed to deal with to succeed.
Not saying this is you, but people are individual enough that some things don't work for everyone.

For me the Wall drill is the most beneficial practice I can do with my bow. It's hard and there really isn't a tangible reward. That might be why it works so well to retrain a part of your brain which responds so well to reward (Pavlovian response).

-Grant

 

[beleg2]

Good thread.
I would like to ad that sometimes the wall drill is easy as you know that on release you loose the arrow.
I tried another drill after wall drill, that is to draw and let down on the target. This is more difficult as you know you can release without consecuence. After more than 600 draw/let down you get more confidence.
JMHO.
Martin

 

[sperki]

Alright, this is a ton of advise. It sounds like I've got my work cut out. I'll be hitting the bale this afternoon. Do should I be shooting groups, or not even thinking about that? I'm going to use my lighter bow to shoot, but for the wall drill does it make sense to use a heavier bow?