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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am returning to traditional archery after 30 years. I shot for a little while when I was a kid and have been told I have pretty good form but I am coming across something that seems contrary to everything I've read. As a newbie to the forum, I did some searching first but just can't seem to find the answer to the issue I'm having so I would appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. Here's my setup:

Bow #1: 55# Samick Sage recurve, continuous loop string twisted FIFTY times to get a 7 3/4" brace height.

Bow #2: 55# fiberglass no-name attic find, flemish string with 6 1/2" brace height and slightly twisted upper limb. This bow has mildly recurved limbs but they do not touch the string while braced and it shoots like a longbow.

I have a 27" draw and use 29" ITS Bowhunter carbon 400 spine arrows. I originally strung the attic find to see how 55# felt. I found that 125 grain field points produced smooth and consistent arrow flight. In fact, the bow shot so smoothly that I wouldn't have purchased another if it were not for the twisted limb. So, I picked up a Samick Sage takedown. My first issue was getting the brace height anywhere near what was recommended. I'm still concerned about the number of twists in my string but mostly because nobody seems to recommend that many twists.

The issue I'm really having though is the disparity between the arrow spine that these two bows seem to want. The Sage will not shoot clean with less than 325 grain points on the 400s. This seems even stranger when you consider the fact that the shelf on the fiberglass bow is barely wide enough to hold the arrow while the Sage is cut in quite a bit. I'm seriously considering 500s to cut down on tip weight. Does anyone have an idea why these bows should be so different? Could I be missing something? I did some bare shaft testing on the Sage and it seems to confirm that 400s are too stiff. At 10 yards, the nock flies hard right just off the shelf and sticks that way in the target. At 20 yards, the nock flies hard right off the shelf, then swings back hard left and sticks that way in the target. The extremes become less and less as tip weight increases and bare shaft flight is straight at 325 grains. Still, there isn't an arrow chart anywhere that recommends 500 spine shafts for a 55# bow, even at 29". Does anyone else have this problem? It just blows my mind that I should need 200 grains more to get the same consistency. Seems extreme. Am I just crazy or is this part of the "Witchery"?
 

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For now you don't care how the bare shaft flies. You care where it impact compared to a feathered shaft. www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html.

I don't feel it should blow your mind because of two issues. One is the material the strings are made from and the other is amount bows are cut to center.

I feel your going to find the .400 too stiff. When you bare shaft PLAN you see the bare shaft is going to impact left of the fletched if you're right handed.

Bowmania
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the link. I will read through that today. I just thought the swinging nock was due to a lack of paradox and would hurt arrow speed as air friction against the fletching is needed to correct arrow flight. I will pick up a few 500s and see what happens. I'm a little concerned about not hitting 10 grains per pound but I'll deal with that later. Wow, you can really get sidetracked with all this tuning stuff! Think I'll just shoot some arrows tonight. :)
 

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Out of curiosity:
How tall are you and what is your wingspan when measured from fingertip to fingertip? How was your DL measured?

-Grant
 

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I have different experience. I can shoot a 30-31" .400 arrow (carbon or aluminum) from my bow with 125 grain points. I am shooting 48# @29" and maxed out it runs 54#.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow. When I read all the info at the link, it got me wondering just how much shelf affects arrow flight. I thought a deeper shelf would produce straighter flight but maybe a narrow shelf forces the point left thus creating greater torque at the nock. ???

As for my DL, it was measured at the bow shop with a specially marked arrow. I am 6' tall and 6' from tip to tip but either I have short arms or it's because I draw to the corner of my mouth instead of my ear. ???

If there's a way to remove the twist from the limb, please share. I like the old fiberglass bow a lot more than the Sage. It's smoother, easier to draw, easier to brace and doesn't slap my arm at all even with the low brace height.

Thank you guys for sharing your experience.
 

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Bear Kodiak Magnums: #45, #50, #55
All use 500 Gamegetters with 125 points

Arrow length 31 3/8" from end of insert to groove of nock.

Bear Kodiak Magnum #60
Gamegetter 400 with 125 points (340 Gamegetters work fair but not as good as the 400s)

Now, one of my Bear Super Magnums (48 inch bow) at #55 works best with Gamegetter 340s and shoots the 400s poorly even though the 400s work better in the #60 Kmag (52 inch bow). So here I have a lower poundage bow wanting a stiffer spine than the higher poundage bow (all other things being equal).

I hope this helps. You have to fiddle around I guess.
 

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Couple of comments I can make ...

1. I found my Sage's optimum spine changes significantly from B50 string to modern string materials.

2. I didn't find a real correlation between weight and spine. It seems the amount of center cut has a big effect.

Personally, I don't worry about the reasons why a spine works with a particular bow. I just tune it as best I can without going crazy, and then don't worry about it after that. Maybe someday I'll be good enough where fine tuning spine will matter to me, but I'm not even close to that point yet.
 
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