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finger shooter
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
WE have been beating the limbs to death. I think its time to do a comparison of all the BB risers out there and although it won't be scientific (great!) honest opinions of likes and dislikes could be helpful to a lot of us.
 

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Great idea Ren. I look forward to the discussion but because of my very limited experience, don't have anything to add other than, please send me all of your different risers to try out!!

Alan
 

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Ok, everyone send their risers to me and I will spend a few years reviewing them 😀


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I like my Spig VBS better than I like my Spig BB.

I do not know enough about risers to know why.
 

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Ren. Designing a riser on a CAD system, it can tell you all sorts of funky stuff.

The centreline
The Centre of gravity (in 3 axis)
the Centre of the throat of the grip
The balance of flex (FEA work)
the deflex.
The overall Mass
and lastly the amount of flex (FEA).

these are all interesting topics in their own right.

I think they are key to how the riser reacts and feels.

Maybe this might help steer the convo to a means of communicating what people have found?

ps, I know people don't have these numbers... but we are not daft folks on here, we can try and talk about them?
 

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I like my Spig VBS better than I like my Spig BB.

I do not know enough about risers to know why.
I like my Spig VBS VERY much...Too early to tell, but maybe as much as the Bernardini Nilo that I had a few years back...A bit of tweeking/sorting things out with the grip, and I'll know for sure...I would love to try out a Best Zenit, and a Best Moon, though....Jim
 

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I wish there was a database of riser measurements. It's not like limbs which are tough to quantify.
Sure there is still stiffness and feel but the actual dimensions wouldn't be that hard.

I know this much: nothing has shot better for me indoors then the Nilo I had. Something about that bow just worked but I couldn't seem to love the grip.
Neither Spig I've owned seemed to shoot that great for me but perhaps I didn't keep them long enough.

Now I'm going to try the 27" Luxor just to see if that Bernardini magic is in it. That will mean shooting a 70" bow with just a 28.5" DL but perhaps it will be a good combo. At least with BB risers you rarely lose money when you sell them.

-Grant
 

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Great subject, and long overdue in my humble opinion. I've spent a quantity of time studying riser design over the last few months. Here's my list of basic data that I have been gathering as available each riser:

1.) Overall length and bolt-to-bolt length.
2.) Limb pad angle.
3.) Amount of deflex or reflex. For ILF risers I take a straight line drawn between the centrelines of the adjustment bolts (not the locking bolts) and measure the distance from that line to the throat of the grip. For bolt-down risers I use the line between the tip ends of the limb pads.
4.) The vertical centre point of the throat of the grip in relation to the centre point of the riser overall.
5.) the height of the shelf above the vertical centre of the throat of the grip.
6.) The height of the plunger fitting above the shelf, and any fore and aft offset from a vertical line drawn through the deepest point of the grip's throat.
6.) The distance the face of the sight window is offset from the string.
7. The overall height of the sight window.
8.) Base weight of the riser (including permanent weights, excluding add-on weights).
9.) Riser body material (type of metal, type of wood, carbon, etc.)

All the above doesn't tell you a dang thing unless you correlate it with user reports of how the riser performs; perceived balance, hand shock, draw characteristics, stability, target acquisition and so forth.
However, I think one could establish a pretty tight correlation between "the numbers" and overall performance characteristics with enough data.
Also to remember is what type of shooting the riser was originally designed for. Every bow is a compromise. There can be no wholesale definition that would apply equally to a 15" hunting riser and a 25" full Olympic riser. So you would really have to group risers by class to get an apples-to-apples evaluation.
All that said, I'll be following this thread with more than a little interest, because it is my belief that riser design can - to put a phrase to it - make a cheapo set of limbs perform like world beaters, or, on the other hand, make the best set of limbs money can buy into dogs of the lowest order.

Regards,

Salskov
 
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Great subject, and long overdue in my humble opinion. I've spent a quantity of time studying riser design over the last few months. Here's my list of basic data that I have been gathering as available each riser:

1.) Overall length and bolt-to-bolt length.
2.) Limb pad angle.
3.) Amount of deflex or reflex. For ILF risers I take a straight line drawn between the centrelines of the adjustment bolts (not the locking bolts) and measure the distance from that line to the throat of the grip. For bolt-down risers I use the line between the tip ends of the limb pads.
4.) The vertical centre point of the throat of the grip in relation to the centre point of the riser overall.
5.) the height of the shelf above the vertical centre of the throat of the grip.
6.) The height of the plunger fitting above the shelf, and any fore and aft offset from a vertical line drawn through the deepest point of the grip's throat.
6.) The distance the face of the sight window is offset from the string.
7. The overall height of the sight window.
8.) Base weight of the riser (including permanent weights, excluding add-on weights).
9.) Riser body material (type of metal, type of wood, carbon, etc.)
One factor not on your list that interests me is flexibility vs. stiffness. In terms of speed, stiff is supposed to be faster, but then I've read that a more flexible riser is more forgiving.

My logic has been that limbs, arrow weight, string, brace height . . . can all get speed up there, and then a more flexible riser is desirable for better control. But seeing the rave reviews for super stiff risers like Stolid makes me curious about how others feel about stiffness vs. flexibility in risers.
 

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I've owned 4 quite different alloy risers.
The old Hoyt TD2,it weighs a ton, it's plain ugly with an intentionally scratched up flat black finish that matches it's equally ugly limbs,it's totally solid and stable in the hand,it's been around since the dark ages and I love to turn up to comp's with it and shoot really well beside people with new gear.

A DAS Hunter, lighter and far more tuneable than the old Hoyt,very pretty in any engineers kind of way, solid, stable, leaves the archer no excuses.

Hoyt Dorado,my do anything bow,enjoyed it while I owned it but I got bit by the ILF bug and was never fully satisfied with the Dorado once that happened.

I picked up my new 17" Titan riser yesterday, it's looking like all the good things the others were, but in the one package.

You did say non scientific right.
John.
 

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Lefties are tough to come by. I like the balance and feel of my Luxor but, I'd dump it in a second if I could get a 25 inch version of the DAS elite. David just hit it right with that riser.

Matt
Matt the 650 is for as close as it gets to a 25" elite. I have owned both and they share more similarities than differences.
 

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Great subject, and long overdue in my humble opinion. I've spent a quantity of time studying riser design over the last few months. Here's my list of basic data that I have been gathering as available each riser:

1.) Overall length and bolt-to-bolt length.
2.) Limb pad angle.
3.) Amount of deflex or reflex. For ILF risers I take a straight line drawn between the centrelines of the adjustment bolts (not the locking bolts) and measure the distance from that line to the throat of the grip. For bolt-down risers I use the line between the tip ends of the limb pads.
4.) The vertical centre point of the throat of the grip in relation to the centre point of the riser overall.
5.) the height of the shelf above the vertical centre of the throat of the grip.
6.) The height of the plunger fitting above the shelf, and any fore and aft offset from a vertical line drawn through the deepest point of the grip's throat.
6.) The distance the face of the sight window is offset from the string.
7. The overall height of the sight window.
8.) Base weight of the riser (including permanent weights, excluding add-on weights).
9.) Riser body material (type of metal, type of wood, carbon, etc.)

All the above doesn't tell you a dang thing unless you correlate it with user reports of how the riser performs; perceived balance, hand shock, draw characteristics, stability, target acquisition and so forth.
However, I think one could establish a pretty tight correlation between "the numbers" and overall performance characteristics with enough data.
Also to remember is what type of shooting the riser was originally designed for. Every bow is a compromise. There can be no wholesale definition that would apply equally to a 15" hunting riser and a 25" full Olympic riser. So you would really have to group risers by class to get an apples-to-apples evaluation.
All that said, I'll be following this thread with more than a little interest, because it is my belief that riser design can - to put a phrase to it - make a cheapo set of limbs perform like world beaters, or, on the other hand, make the best set of limbs money can buy into dogs of the lowest order.

Regards,

Salskov
What he said. Hoyt has been playing around with plunger location for years. I know that both the Zenit and Luxor have "slightly" offset stabilizer bushings for balance. It is only like 1mm but adds to the equation when tuning the riser and checking things like limb alignment and plane. Lots of little tweaks that manufactures do to riser for various reasons.
 

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One factor not on your list that interests me is flexibility vs. stiffness. In terms of speed, stiff is supposed to be faster, but then I've read that a more flexible riser is more forgiving.

My logic has been that limbs, arrow weight, string, brace height . . . can all get speed up there, and then a more flexible riser is desirable for better control. But seeing the rave reviews for super stiff risers like Stolid makes me curious about how others feel about stiffness vs. flexibility in risers.
Les -

In my own mind , I put the stiffness/flexibility question on the user evaluation side of things. Sure, one can measure load vs. deflection on this axis or that using a testing armature, but what does it tell you about the feel of the bow in action? The other thing is that folks don't have that kind of equipment parked in their garage. So I figured that the subjective rating of stiffness/flexibility would be more useful and to the intent of the exercise.

Regards,

Salskov
 

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finger shooter
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well, so far I have owned:

Bernardini Nilo - Loved it (thanks Jim Harper!), but could not ever get over the half grip.
Barnardini Luxor - WOW. Only thing I don't like is the length, recently sold it to Grant. Reason I like having a riser I can use the same limbs on, and with this I needed medium limbs.
Bext Zenit BB x2 - These are my current go to risers. Stiff, most forgiving riser I have shot so far. They start out heavy and with the addition of a few McCain engineering weights they are rock solid. I increased my FPS by 3 FPS with these risers in comparison to the Bernardini Nilo (same limbs) set to mid point. Quality worksmanship, only bad thing is no limb adjustment ability.
DAS Elite - The best riser in my humble opinion, as Matt mentioned if I could find a 25" DAS I'd be in heaven. I have tried a couple Spig's and not a fan, but I don't think they were the 650 as Scott mentioned.
Looks like I am going to be giving the Stolid Bull BT a try next.... :)
 
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