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Raising the Bow vs. Straight Draw

7K views 18 replies 11 participants last post by  longbowguy 
#1 ·
I recently saw an article at the KSL archery site here talking about the "new technique of raising the bow." I'd always thought it was long established, and actually was the more traditional method. I adopted "raising the bow" for myself two years ago by copying Brady Ellison's style, which the KSL site seems to be highlighting. Maybe they mean it's new to Olympic archery or KSL? Or possibly what they show in the diagram and Ellison doing below is a new variation of raising the bow?



Anyway, I've observed that in contrast to raising the bow, many (most?) BB archers seem to draw the bow straight back. I've assumed it's for aiming purposes so I've been trying it out to see what advantages it offers. One negative thing I noticed right off is how much more difficult it is to draw the bow. I'd say at least 100% more difficult, which makes me wonder why people with shoulder issues, and those using super recurves, don't raise the bow to help get past that up-front draw difficulty.

I'd like to understand the advantages of the straight draw if anyone would care to explain or refer me to where I can study it.
 
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#3 ·
Les -

I just became aware of this Form not long ago . . . it comes from the
traditional Manchu Archery of the Qing Imperial Guard.

Much easier with my problems shoulder (osteoarthritis / degenerative arthritis of the shoulder), coupled with the after-effect of the my stroke:



Make a really big difference . . . In My Humble Opinion ! !

John
 
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#4 ·
I was introduced to the rotational draw during an NTS level 1/2 course. And along with some individual coaching have made the transition from a linear draw.

I am really happy and find the rotational draw much stronger. The key for me was developoing a consistent and comfortable set position, making sure that at set: 1, my bow arm shoulder is down and 2, my draw hand-wrist-elbow are all completly aligned with the arrow. With 3 or 4 inches presure on the string my back is round, chest colapsed and there is a slight closed angle between the bow arm and chest. The draw from this set position feel very natural. The back pulls into alingment with the draw arm and the chest opens up as the draw hand moves toward anchor in an arc from the side. I find I can slide right into position without moving my head at all.
I am shooting 57lb Hex 7 limb and find the rotational draw has the big advantage of engaging the back properly from the very beginning.

Rasyad
 
#5 ·
I was introduced to the rotational draw during an NTS level 1/2 course. And along with some individual coaching have made the transition from a linear draw.

I am really happy and find the rotational draw much stronger. The key for me was developoing a consistent and comfortable set position, making sure that at set: 1, my bow arm shoulder is down and 2, my draw hand-wrist-elbow are all completly aligned with the arrow. With 3 or 4 inches presure on the string my back is round, chest colapsed and there is a slight closed angle between the bow arm and chest. The draw from this set position feel very natural. The back pulls into alingment with the draw arm and the chest opens up as the draw hand moves toward anchor in an arc from the side. I find I can slide right into position without moving my head at all.
I am shooting 57lb Hex 7 limb and find the rotational draw has the big advantage of engaging the back properly from the very beginning.

Rasyad
Thanks for the tips. I agree it seems to naturally engage the back, and for me I feel much stronger during the draw than pulling straight back.

However, one negative about the "rotational" draw for me has been that I can't adjust my lateral aim much (up and down isn't a problem). If I don't come down close to on target, I can't seem to quite get there at full draw. I have assumed that this type of draw requires the archer to master coming down on target, but I don't know.
 
#6 ·
Les,

Once you get to anchor try moving at your waist both for side to side as well as up and down aiming.

Rasyad
 
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#7 ·
My coach had me do the rotational draw to engage the back as I am lifting the bow. This made it much easier to be on target once I hit anchor. I was also instructed to vary where I start the draw depending on the angle of the shot (up hill vs. down hill).

again this is barebow never taking the focus off the target
 
#10 ·
I think it comes to down to economy of movement, and some lingering form of aiming when you use a set draw. I find it much more consistent as one learns the correct height in relation to the target, it's an efficiency thing. Why would one start way above or below while the bow is fighting you at the same time? (Read under stress and load) It simply removes another unnecessary step for some. Barebow archers obviously don't have the same reference as Brady, the sight for instance, so in a way shooting with the sight is easier to maintain consistency in my opinion.

Barebow guys do what works for them, and not everyone does things for the same reason. A person should be able to use a set draw, and come to anchor without the bow rising or falling, that is a tiller issue. It could also be related to grip style. Back to the question at hand..Simply put, yes why not draw on target and save yourself from looking like some kind of contortionist after you get to anchor, then get on the target?
The less movements you have to memorize and repeat the better off you are.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Folks use all variations of form successfuly. Stringwalking requires consistent setup to get the crawl set and not move position of the draw fingers at set or during the draw. I am guessing here, but pushing the bow down and forward and loading the string directly from setup (as in a liniar draw) has less motion and possibly less chance of changing the crawl. That said, I have seen other stringwalkers that bring the bow up to a shoulder high set position and then draw straight back.
I don't find it hard to hold the crawl position when I raise the bow to the shoulder high setup. I do take a second to settle in at setup with my grip, fingers, and alignment. Because my hands are just above my shoulders and there is 3-4 inches of pressure on the string, my setup position feels really stable and effortless.

Rasyad
 
#14 ·
The old Howard Hill swing draw has some similarity to this. MoOse mentioned economy of movement and referred to what I think of as 'pre-aim' as advantages of doing it the other way. That is valid.

But I think of drawing while raising the bow as economy of effort and teach it to youth and women and anybody else with strength issues. It may require mental or imaginary pre-aiming. Visualizing the sight picture you have decided on then raising and drawing to quickly achieve that sight picture with less muscular effort.

I am pleased to see the great coach Lee and the great archer Ellison working with the idea. - lbg
 
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#15 · (Edited)
Straight draw is harder but more economical for me. I use straight draw because I pre aim and there is less movement. You can combine both by drawing straight but making a J with your drawing hand. If the drawing strength is the issue then those individuals should train holding the bow and letting down, I did this every evening at home and it has helped me tremendously. It's much easier to practice letting down and holding to gain additional strength than learning another complex movement.
 
#16 ·
This style of draw is common among over bowed individuals. Brady shoots more poundage then his team mates, but likely got into this method to conserve his strength over the many shots he takes. I think some things are best left to what feels right to the archer and trying to emulate Brady or others can and will lead to frustration. Its pointless to copy somebody when you dont know why they are doing it. That being said, im all for trying different things and learning what works for you/me.
 
#18 · (Edited)
What everyone says about finding a style that suits them seems like sage advice. I wonder too if the straight draw is adopted because it suits hunting as well as competition sports. Personally I'm only interested in target shooting and have informally been trying to learn what suits me from the BEST method.

From what I've learned at the KSL website, I don't believe Brady Ellison adopted the style he uses only to conserve strength, but also to achieve steadiness and to end up fully drawn in proper form. I'm still totally a student, but there's something about the flow of that method that seems to engage all the right muscles when I draw. I looked around for others discussing Mr. Ellison's style and found a comment in this thread:

"Brady Elison shoots the "BEST METHOD" taught by USA Olympic Coach Kisik Lee. It is a technique using bone alignment, body control, muscular requirements, mental concentration and other elements which are essential to become an elite competitor. It is a scientific study of biomechanics as to how the body performs like a machine. The success depends on consistency start to finish. Many hours of shooting 1000's of arrows at least a mimium of 300 arrows per day every day (Brady probably shoots more). This training does not only consist of shooting arrows but using elastic bands, mirrors, weights, videos, lots of coaching and discipline along with a physic coach. Score is not important! It is about shooting the best technique one can shoot. When one's focuses on the best technique the result is that it continues to get better! Each step in the technique is important and must be done in the same order because it sets up the next step to get all the bones in the body aligned with one another. If a step is missed the archer must start over from the beginning.
Sandy"

This has been posted before, but here's a YouTube video highlighting a bit of the science behind the method he employs:



 
#17 ·
Doesn't being on target take precedence over ease of draw????

Isn't the easiest way to be on target when you hit full draw is to start by pointing on target???

Rod Jenkins on the problem with the swing draw is not being on target when you get to full draw. If you end up right you move left (without a lot of time to think) and you miss left.

Bowmania
 
#19 ·
I'm hoping to bring this thread back to the top. Somehow I have been missing this technique. I went out to try it yesterday at 50 yards. It felt very comfortable and it seemed to raise my point of impact by about 2 feet. Whoa! I'm was not quite ready for that with a local event to shoot on Sunday. So I stopped the experiment. But I am certainly going to pursue it during the week. I hope some of the rest of you do as well so we can compare results. Very interesting. - lbg
 
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