I am questioning my style of shooting. I have always shot split finger. That seems natural to me. I feared even trying it because I was afraid that once I get my eye that low and see my arrow that I may forever after this see it, no longer shooting instinctive, but lining up the arrow. But, I am interested in a new bow with a short sight window. And as funny as I am about not trying anything new, trying not to confuse my "mind sights", I just went and tried 3 under. For me, instinctive is not an option like this. I can't help but to line it up, LOL, I'm looking right down it. I noticed that with my arrow length, 22 yards was dead on. While I consider myself a very good instinctive shooter, my groups tightened up. Did not feel natural, bow was louder...... but maybe considering it. It's a very crued sight, using the arrow. I used the lolypop method as described here on the forum. I wonder if a skinny arrow might help? How do you guys get the further and shorter yards out of this method? I can see how different length arrows would work great.... but I also learned that to be illegal on this forum. I have not decided to give up instinctive, but I am asking questions, considering it. That extra pause needed to aim is beyond what I am used to at 55 lbs. I feel it in my shoulders. Thoughts, advice?
Questions
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Sounds like you've got a really high anchor which brings up a couple of things:
1) You may not actually NEED to go 3-under with the shorter sight window.
2) A shorter/faster arrow will have a further point-on distance. A thinner one will do the same.
3) You could revert to a lower anchor that actually allows better use of the back muscles allowing you to hold that weight better.
Either way the nock point will have to be higher when shooting 3-under.
-Grant
1) You may not actually NEED to go 3-under with the shorter sight window.
2) A shorter/faster arrow will have a further point-on distance. A thinner one will do the same.
3) You could revert to a lower anchor that actually allows better use of the back muscles allowing you to hold that weight better.
Either way the nock point will have to be higher when shooting 3-under.
-Grant
I pull my pointer finger to the corner of my mouth. I have experimented with blocking my sight window on my present bow with a piece of tape. Split finger, I feel I need at least 3 inches for my right eye dominate to get a clear view, otherwise, my left eye starts to play a part... and I don't wish to close one eye
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Regarding shooting instinctively, I'd recommend you read this piece by the 19th century English archery Horace A. Ford: http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/ford/docs/chapter11_1.html
That pithy little chapter cured me of instinctive shooting a few years back.
As to the question of blocking your eye with your low anchor, I do this when I shoot. I'm left eye dominant, but my left eye doesn't see much of the target. Instead, my bow is overlaid in a hazy sort of way over the target (at short distances anyways) and I use this relationship as part of my sight picture. It doesn't affect my shooting, so long as the arrow stays under my dominant eye.
That pithy little chapter cured me of instinctive shooting a few years back.
As to the question of blocking your eye with your low anchor, I do this when I shoot. I'm left eye dominant, but my left eye doesn't see much of the target. Instead, my bow is overlaid in a hazy sort of way over the target (at short distances anyways) and I use this relationship as part of my sight picture. It doesn't affect my shooting, so long as the arrow stays under my dominant eye.
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Is there something wrong with gapping. Because from trying instinctive for years, I've found something wrong with it. Best shooters in the world living and dead are/were gappers - Hill and Ferguson.
How about going back to split and gapping? Your POA will be out there further than 22 yards which should help at 3D. And gapping will tighten up your groups.
Bowmania
Bowmania
How about going back to split and gapping? Your POA will be out there further than 22 yards which should help at 3D. And gapping will tighten up your groups.
Bowmania
Bowmania
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That "pithy little chapter" almost gave me a migraine before I said, "screw this!" but I get the gist. To answer the OP's question: I'm not gonna to address the instinctive issue but I shoot three under with a very high anchor. It does take some different muscles and takes awhile to adjust to, but the accuracy I gained...in leaps and bounds over a lower anchor... was absolutely worth it. You might also try engaging the back muscles with a level draw and then going up to anchor...I found that it helped.
55#? Bless your heart, I'm working with 45-47# and reaching for the BenGay after a long range session. Buuuut... my 3D scores went up by 30 points and I've got a 25 yard point on now. I'll live with the pain until I build'em up.
55#? Bless your heart, I'm working with 45-47# and reaching for the BenGay after a long range session. Buuuut... my 3D scores went up by 30 points and I've got a 25 yard point on now. I'll live with the pain until I build'em up.
LOL, I have heard that term "gapping" but I would only be guessing if I said I knew what it meant????
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Nobody likes Victorian English literature anymore? I think it's hilariously snarky stuff. But if you want it translated into ******* here ya go:
"Folks tell you to focus on the spot and just trust yer instincts. But you ever seen a feller hunt a deer with a rifle by trustin' his instincts? Heck no! They use sights and scopes and sight along the line if the barrel. If'n they just raised the gun up and stared at the target they warn't hit nothin no-how and that's God's honest truth. So how can an archer shoot a bow without aimin' down the arrow? Ain't never been done."
Fair approximation if you ask me.
"Folks tell you to focus on the spot and just trust yer instincts. But you ever seen a feller hunt a deer with a rifle by trustin' his instincts? Heck no! They use sights and scopes and sight along the line if the barrel. If'n they just raised the gun up and stared at the target they warn't hit nothin no-how and that's God's honest truth. So how can an archer shoot a bow without aimin' down the arrow? Ain't never been done."
Fair approximation if you ask me.
Spent the last hour researching gapping. Interesting. I am surprised that served nocks are enough to stop the upward pressure of 3 under
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Shoot 3 under with a solid tab, traffic finger in the corner of my
Mouth with cock feather touching side of the nose
Use ce 20/40 shafts 28 inches long
Top of the point is 22 yds, middle of the point is 25, bottom of point is 30, one shaft above what I want to hit is 40.
Aint that hard
Mouth with cock feather touching side of the nose
Use ce 20/40 shafts 28 inches long
Top of the point is 22 yds, middle of the point is 25, bottom of point is 30, one shaft above what I want to hit is 40.
Aint that hard
I've used both split and solid tabs for 3 under, doesn't seem to matter in my case. I know that tabs with a large split can cause problems.
I've heard of longbow classes which require split but nothing that applies to recurves.
-Grant
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This is a great topic
I have been resisting three under for many many years when some of the best shooters I know shoot this way
I do not know why
Old stigmatism etc maybe
I always said that I felt more in control being able to hold the arrow between my fingers but a recent turn of events have lead me to shoot three under and my consistency has improved
When I received the Hex 7 bow I immediately fell in love with the feel of the bow. From the grip to the way it pulled but the small sight window got in my way on close shots forcing me to can't the bow more than normal
At 20 yds I was fine but closer shots my vision was obscured. I have been thinking about 3 under a lot lately and after talking to Ben and Dwayne and many other shooters I figured I would try it again
John Wert has been bugging me for years to switch
Well after only a few shots I was amazed at how consistent I was
Now after Two weeks I am getting outside and again the consistence is better
It almost seems like cheating
I am not aiming down the arrow so to speak but it of definitely is lining up in my peripheral vision better giving me something that I was looking for all along and it was right in gpfront of my face
I ordered two Jenkins/Teaschner tabs and I'm gonna stick with it. After 35 years of being a successful split ginger shooter that was looking for more consistence I am hoping I have found it
I can not move my anchor up to shoot split . It might be the shape of my face or whatever but I can keep my anchor and shoot three under and get the desired effect
I also used a sound meter to check the actual noise increase in shooting 3 under and in my opinion it was negligible
So I'm gonna stick with it
I have been resisting three under for many many years when some of the best shooters I know shoot this way
I do not know why
Old stigmatism etc maybe
I always said that I felt more in control being able to hold the arrow between my fingers but a recent turn of events have lead me to shoot three under and my consistency has improved
When I received the Hex 7 bow I immediately fell in love with the feel of the bow. From the grip to the way it pulled but the small sight window got in my way on close shots forcing me to can't the bow more than normal
At 20 yds I was fine but closer shots my vision was obscured. I have been thinking about 3 under a lot lately and after talking to Ben and Dwayne and many other shooters I figured I would try it again
John Wert has been bugging me for years to switch
Well after only a few shots I was amazed at how consistent I was
Now after Two weeks I am getting outside and again the consistence is better
It almost seems like cheating
I am not aiming down the arrow so to speak but it of definitely is lining up in my peripheral vision better giving me something that I was looking for all along and it was right in gpfront of my face
I ordered two Jenkins/Teaschner tabs and I'm gonna stick with it. After 35 years of being a successful split ginger shooter that was looking for more consistence I am hoping I have found it
I can not move my anchor up to shoot split . It might be the shape of my face or whatever but I can keep my anchor and shoot three under and get the desired effect
I also used a sound meter to check the actual noise increase in shooting 3 under and in my opinion it was negligible
So I'm gonna stick with it
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Thanks for that. It's a nice little piece. Even better is the next chapter, "Aiming." Nice explanation of indirect aiming. What tickles me is that these old birds were commonly shooting 80 plus yards, wherein todays men think they're doing good if they can keep three in a paper plate at 20.
Hill was not a "gapper." He used indirect aiming (split vision). He describes it in depth in, "Hunting the Hard Way."
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I resisted trying three under for about 20 years.
20 wasted years in a way because I'm much more accurate at the distances I play at now.
A 45-50 meters I'm point on,anything after that can walk.
I do still practice split,but only so I can shoot feild sometime in the future.
I've alway gap shot,didn't even know it until I joined a club an somebody asked me how I aimed.
I had no idea then and I could care less now.
Aiming is something I learn't then an forgot about.
Most of my poor shots have nothing to do with aiming.
John.
20 wasted years in a way because I'm much more accurate at the distances I play at now.
A 45-50 meters I'm point on,anything after that can walk.
I do still practice split,but only so I can shoot feild sometime in the future.
I've alway gap shot,didn't even know it until I joined a club an somebody asked me how I aimed.
I had no idea then and I could care less now.
Aiming is something I learn't then an forgot about.
Most of my poor shots have nothing to do with aiming.
John.
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