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I will answer you how I was doing it when I was "Instinctive" and I was shooting 240s/300 at that time: No bareshafting, the arrow to go where I look from different distances - from 10 to 40s yards. It was not that hard to assess the "too stiff" or "too weak" at 40s because there I was shooting point on.
So you were aiming, not instinctive.
 
So you were aiming, not instinctive.
You aim in any circumstances, and most important part is you "aim" with your body - call it spatial awareness and proprioception - and your mind. "Aiming" is not just "put the tip there". Who's saying "instinctive" shooter is not "aiming" makes a huge mistake imo. You send the arrow "there", not the bow. The bow is just the tool who's sending the arrow on a path determined by your stance at full draw, draw weight and arrow weight.
I think there is a post of the archer who got 2nd at La Biche World Archery 3D Championship - gapper - who is saying he is "instinctive" below 15 yards. It doesn't mean he is not aiming under 15 yards, he is relying on other things than "the tip there". The same way a flight shooter is not relying on "tip there".
 
Good point LBG.
So, I have a question for pure instinctive archer. How do you tune your bow and arrow without aiming.
Dan
I shoot instinctive and most certainly aim. If I did not aim I could not hit anything. Aiming for me is looking at what I wish to hit, until my bow arm floats to where it needs to, settle and release to follow through. I'm not conscious of my point on the close shots, but it's there in my periphery. Half way to point on and further, I am very conscious of it, conscious gapping on the longest shots if I know the distance.

This site has helped me understand I am shooting 'instinctive gap'. I am at anchor for some ~4-5 seconds at shots over 30m these days, while my aim is settling. It's working well for me and is very rewarding

With this said, I bareshaft tune obsessively, and use the walk back bareshaft tune method. I refine on paper, and with nock tuning, as needed.

(Edited for bloody typos)
 
You aim in any circumstances, and most important part is you "aim" with your body - call it spatial awareness and proprioception - and your mind. "Aiming" is not just "put the tip there". Who's saying "instinctive" shooter is not "aiming" makes a huge mistake imo. You send the arrow "there", not the bow. The bow is just the tool who's sending the arrow on a path determined by your stance at full draw, draw weight and arrow weight.
I think there is a post of the archer who got 2nd at La Biche World Archery 3D Championship - gapper - who is saying he is "instinctive" below 15 yards. It doesn't mean he is not aiming under 15 yards, he is relying on other things than "the tip there". The same way a flight shooter is not relying on "tip there".
Nailed it.
 
And your conclusion came from where? Just trying to understand your logic Sam.
PS Some Archery commenters who are OA are funny when saying “the barebow archers shoot instinctive” until his or her partner is saying “no, they use the tip of the arrow as front sight and crawl as rear sight surrogate”. For some taking off the sight is “instinctive”.
 
I think “guys” is too many. Count me out from that. The decision to gap was taken to improve my accuracy in different environments and explore this western archery, not just doing “20 yards and under” - I did 28m and no defined aiming method for enough years to know it works. I had to just pay attention to the arrow who was already there. Without my previous experience maybe I would have been a hardcore “aimer” or “instinctive” just in spite of the “other side” or to snob it.
 
If you admit you are consciously gapping, you are aware of the Arrow to form the gap.
I am aware of my hand in the periphery as I throw a ball of paper into the bin, or a dart at the board. But I don't calculate gaps on either.

You could say instinctive gapping is just gapping without numbers, without conscious calculation. It does not mean one isn't 'aiming'.

FWIW up until a few years ago I thought everyone without a sight shot this way.
 
You could say instinctive gapping is just gapping without numbers, without conscious calculation. It does not mean one isn't 'aiming'.
You could say that 0-15 yards, maybe 20 but it depends upon nock height and point on tuning.
Assuming you tune for best arrow deflection and flight to eliminate porpoise and fish tailing there will be a strike point, PO and inside of that distance a midrange peak.
Line of sight, Trajectory path is tuned into the Bow assuming you have tuned in the horizontal/vertical.
 
One major consideration by comparing throwing balls (Baseball etc.) and comparing it to Archery is the mechanics involved.
One can put more effort into (increase or decrease) throwing a ball whereas shooting a Bow (unless you draw further back or not as much) is limited to draw length.
Proper flight is determined by tune to deflection.
 
You could say that 0-15 yards, maybe 20 but it depends upon nock height and point on tuning.
Assuming you tune for best arrow deflection and flight to eliminate porpoise and fish tailing there will be a strike point, PO and inside of that distance a midrange peak.
Line of sight, Trajectory path is tuned into the Bow assuming you have tuned in the horizontal/vertical.
Guess I don't understand.

Paper plates all the way to point on distance using the instinctive gap method of aiming is fairly inevitable with practice (indeed heaps more practice than with other methods). In a way less intuition is involved as you approach PO as the point is right up there in the picture. No numbers, units of measure, need be in the process to put the arrow there however.

Hughes said often that the short shots are for him harder. While I can't yet get his inspiring groups at 50m shooting split finger instinctive gap, I kind of know what he means.
 
Yes, my steps. I estimate how I am going to shoot the shot.. check stance.
draw to anchor.
aim, watch to keep it.
Keep pulling,
keep pulling,
keep pulling,
keep pulling.
Letdown if shot doesn't happen.
Repeat.
 
Yes, my steps. I estimate how I am going to shoot the shot.. check stance.
draw to anchor.
aim, watch to keep it.
Keep pulling,
keep pulling,
keep pulling,
keep pulling.
Letdown if shot doesn't happen.
Repeat.
Yes, I practice letting down on bale work.
If TP plagues you, Let down at 50-60 after you start aiming, let down before you commit.
 
Sam, this is why I got TP. I believe I could run on subconsciously execution. Well when I got to top level. It all fell a part.
It happens to us all✅ We get performance anxiety under the pressure of competition. It happened to me in Pistol competition and when happens, back to basics and fundamentals. Training on the shot cycle in steps and segments. We lose control, have to come back to where we started.
"You will fight the way you train"
 
Discussion starter · #139 ·
I have made another night shoot video. It is on my YouTube channel.
This time I shot from 70 feet at a red LED.
No flashlight illumination on target. Just a tiny red LED facing me, powered by a weak 3 volt button cell.
You decide. Instinct or lucky guessing. Or maybe "pratical guestimation shooting".
I dunno....
 
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