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As most of you know, I am new here and loving every minute I spend on this site. Never in a million years would I have thought I'd get this addicted to the competative side of this sport as much as I have. (coming from strictly recurve hunting)

These are general questions for those of you that compete on a regular basis in competition based on the idea of protesting another archer.

1. Have you ever done it and what was your reason for submitting the protest?

2. Do you have reservations about protesting a fellow archer? If yes, why do you have these reservations?

3. Do you have a "line in the sand" that you personally have drawn on potential non-conformances or offenses that warrant a protest?

4. Do you have a "line in the sand" for actual shooting events that warrant a protest or would make you more likely to protest. In other words, the bigger the event, the less tolerant you are for potential nonconformances?

For the most part, we are creatures of compassion and we have a common bond with eachother in this sport of competative barebow archery. We feel we are on the same team with eachother being in the minority of the overall sporting category of archery. No one is enthused about being caught up in the mental warfare or ethical dilema about protesting the legitamacy of a fellow archer's performance or equipment in this tight nit group of fellow recurve and longbow archery family. However, these questions are very interesting to me, especially number 3, and I'd love to get some of you weathered veterans' opinions on these questions.

To me, there are three categories of competative nonconformances as it pertains to archery tournaments.

A. Equipment Nonconformances (non aiming aiding): For Example - you noticed a fellow archer half way through a tournament or at the completion of a tournament that has an extra weight screwed into his stab bushing that is not allowed in the class he is shooting.

B. Equipment Nonconformances (aiming aiding): For Example - you noticed a fellow archer half way through a tournament or at the completion of a tournament that has a series of marks on his riser in his sight window on a vertical orientation that could be used to assist in aiming.

C. Performance Nonconformances: For Example - you witness a fellow archer writing down a different score than where his arrow has struck.

Where is your line? Or do you have a line? Do you take the high road and say to yourself "if you need to bend the rules to beat me, go ahead and try"... Or do you give the archer the benefit of the doubt and assume maybe they didn't fully understand the rules?

I think this is an interesting topic because our sport's governing bodies simply don't have the man-power to have full 100% equipment checks prior to and after a tournament. We are to police ourselves and our fellow archers. The question then comes up, are we truly policing ourselves? Do we, as the active participants of our sport, do our best to ensure the playing field is fair?

Interesting stuff... Did I mention I love this site?!?!
 

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Pete
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Just responded to Navan-James post on comps, if I had the knowledge of "protesting" at that event I would have been placed 2nd not 3rd. However, I went not expecting to get anywhere, just complete the event and enjoy the experience (which I did) but the 2nd place getter got away with it and that sticks in my throat. Next time I would not hesitate.
 

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I have only seen this type of thing at local shoots.. State and above its rare that someone cheats as we all know eachother(From what ive experienced). If there is an issue then we will just bring it up to eachother.. Winning is just not that important, its shooting with all you guys and having a good time that matters.. Once you realize this you will start to reach the top of your game.. One thing i learned quickly is the top shooters help eachother and welcome the competition. The Local shooters tend to talk behind backs and have vendettas for some reason..

For me i try to stay out of Drama situations, i will never protest on my own behalf. Archery is such a small group of people that the cheaters are known.

We get accused of cheating often by some of the new shooters at local events, get dirty looks, Etc.. They say its impossible to shot that well, which is laughable cause if Gary, Sandy, ALan, Matt, or anyone here showed up their world would be rocked..
 

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I plan on sleeping well at night knowing that I did my best, honorably and with integrity. If it's a flagrant violation, yep, I'll stand up and point it out, first to the offender and if he doesn't see it that way, then to the powers that be. If it's a grey area I revert to my initial statement. I'll state my case to him and let the offender do what he feels is right.


I shot a 3D tournament a couple of weeks ago. One of the sponsors of the tournament beat me by one point but his score was posted with a DNF beside it. I got an email saying that I had won the tournament. He DNF'd because he felt he had an unfair advantage because he helped set up the course. I respect that. I know the man, know he's an honorable competitor, and don't see that he had any real advantage. I told them I'd donate the trophy back to the club. When I win a tournament, I want to win it by shooting the highest score, not because someone helped set up the course.
 

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A few years ago I shot the NFAA Marked 3D Nationals in Redding CA in Longbow. At the time it was the only venue where NFAA recognized Longbow.

On the morning of the 3rd day I found that I was trailing first by 10 points, AND that my competitors were shooting carbon and aluminum arrows, while I was shooting woodies. For that event the rules were Longbow shoots wood arrows off the shelf as per CA rules. I talked to the tournament director and our State NFAA rep. I was told that I could file a protest and that I would win the protest. I chose not to file. I then went on to win by about 20 points.

Why did I not protest? 2 reasons. Its hard enough to get Longbow shooters to such events as it is. For any of those guys to step up and shoot it at all is an accomplishment, regardless of what arrows they used. For all of them to be disqualified would have done nobody any good, and would have only served to ensure that even fewer showed up the following year.

So there's that, PLUS I had decided that I was going to win by shooting, not whining.

But let me assure you, I was nonetheless seriously bent sideways that last day.
 

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I protested somebody once at Euro champs after the equipment change he shot 100 points less the next day but still went on to win, it caused such bad feeling that I've never since protested another archer in a tourney, I will discuss with the Archer the issue and hope they do the right thing but my feeling is good bow inspection should catch these issues and not have to put Archers in awkward situations in the first place.

I now do a lot of Bow inspections at IFAA international shoots.
 

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In NFAA, for the Pro divisions, there are equipment inspections performed by tournament officials. For everybody else, you're on your own. Which is not cool. End result is that anybody who doesn't like competing against those who cheat only comes out looking like the bad guy.
 

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Haven't competed yet, but working towards it. After reading the posts, I see that this is a gentle-person's sport. If someone has to cheat to win, he/she still has to live with himself or herself.

Enjoyed all of your posts.

When I compete, I really doubt that I would report a fellow archer.
 

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Mammoth Hunter
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I've been to two national shoots and a world shoot now. Never protested anybody or had anybody protest. We've had disagreements on how to call an arrow and have had an official come adjudicate the situation, but half the time the archer in question is the one calling it lower than the score caller. People seem to be pretty scrupulously honest in the competitions I've shot.

The closest thing I've had to anybody protesting was I did have one archer remark at worlds that he didn't think my tab was legal in longbow. I pulled up the rules and showed him that it was. He was embarrassed, I think because he thought that I thought he was trying to protest my equipment, when I think we both realized it was just a misunderstanding.

I've heard of bad experiences at tournaments though. At IFAA World indoor in Yankton last year, there were three guys competing in one of the barebow divisions (compound, fingers, I think) and one of them was mentally handicapped. One of the other archers protested the mentally handicapped archer for some minor rules violation. I was floored by that one, particularly since the mentally-handicapped archer was in 3rd place anyway.
 

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"C. Performance Nonconformances: For Example - you witness a fellow archer writing down a different score than where his arrow has struck."

A simple score accounting mistake can be absolutely honest and easily correctable......if I have no doubt and can prove dishonest scoring...that's my line in the sand and will protest in a heartbeat....IMO, it's not good for the sport or fair to other competitors to do anything less.
 

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There's one club in NZ I will no longer support due to their supporting of a number of cheats, and their reluctance to address the issue.
complaining just gets you shot as the messenger, so there's really no point in pursuing the issue.
The good thing is that none of their cheats have the stones to front up at other clubs an try their little games on,so at the end of the day,both that club and those cheats lose anyway.

I don't like cheats.
John.
 

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I had a classic at Indoors few weeks ago this particular Archer was scoring their own card and shooting with their kid, I was controlling the shooting line unknown to them I was taking photos of the face on every end they shot, they had added 1-2 points to their score on every end shot.

I said nothing, firstly they were not in a position close enough to win the tourney and it was really just to confirm my feeling, 95% of shoots they wouldn't have the chance to magic marker their own cards.
 

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Pete
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There's one club in NZ I will no longer support due to their supporting of a number of cheats, and their reluctance to address the issue.
complaining just gets you shot as the messenger, so there's really no point in pursuing the issue.
The good thing is that none of their cheats have the stones to front up at other clubs an try their little games on,so at the end of the day,both that club and those cheats lose anyway.

I don't like cheats.
John.
I think I shot there in '99. ;)
 

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With regards to scoring, at any major event you will usually shoot in a group with 2 sets of scorecards, and 2 scorekeepers. (This is how the IBO does it anyway). The entire group has to be in agreement at each 3D target, and at the end of the day both sets of cards have to match.
 
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