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Are you talking about anterior vs posterior pelvic tilt with pushing forward?
Yes

... push the anterior superior Illiac spine forward and you're peeing on your own shoes
 

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I was told to open my stance and twist at the waist for better upper body support. slightly bent knees.
Dan
 

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both of those postures described are very energy expensive
Lifting weights is also very energy expensive, but it's a worthwhile expense.
 

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Lifting weights is also very energy expensive, but it's a worthwhile expense.
That's true.
The strange thing about posture is.... the more fixed (stable) the posture, the more difficult it is to initiate a movement. The first thing the body is required to do in order to facilitate any form of movement is to destabilize itself and the destabilization isn't isolated to the parts of the body you intend to move. You can be too stable
 

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I was told to open my stance and twist at the waist for better upper body support. slightly bent knees.
Dan
Dan
back in the late 1980's I conducted a series of studies to test the hypothesis that there was an optimum position of stability for a target archer relative to the face of the target.
As an indicator of stability, we tracked the displacement of the centre of mass of the body, relative to the base of support (your foot position) using a 3axis force platform and an in shoe pressure measurement system.
Long story short ... the position all the archer volunteers were at there most stable was with the plane of the pelvis at 45degrees to the target. The most unstable in ant/post (forward and backward) was 90 degrees to the target
 

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Dan
back in the late 1980's I conducted a series of studies to test the hypothesis that there was an optimum position of stability for a target archer relative to the face of the target.
As an indicator of stability, we tracked the displacement of the centre of mass of the body, relative to the base of support (your foot position) using a 3axis force platform and an in shoe pressure measurement system.
Long story short ... the position all the archer volunteers were at there most stable was with the plane of the pelvis at 45degrees to the target. The most unstable in ant/post (forward and backward) was 90 degrees to the target
Phil -

Assuming the 45 degrees to the target what is the relative foot position i.e.
to what degree of foot splay (left & right).

regard,

John
 

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Dan
back in the late 1980's I conducted a series of studies to test the hypothesis that there was an optimum position of stability for a target archer relative to the face of the target.
As an indicator of stability, we tracked the displacement of the centre of mass of the body, relative to the base of support (your foot position) using a 3axis force platform and an in shoe pressure measurement system.
Long story short ... the position all the archer volunteers were at there most stable was with the plane of the pelvis at 45degrees to the target. The most unstable in ant/post (forward and backward) was 90 degrees to the target
Just curious. How did 0 degrees compare to 45 degrees?
 

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bamerabi, if I could answer your question first ....
0 degrees for the purpose of our investigation was all of the archer facing the target.. ie feet, pelvis, shoulders and head all facing the target. The interesting thing about our study was the plane in which the archers were most unstable changed as the body rotated relative to the target.
So the 0 degree plane of instability was the sagital plane ie the archer swaying backwards and forwards and the bow moving up and down. Not only was the magnitude of the instability (how much you sway)greatest at 0, but the speed of the movement was at its greatest at 0.
As we rotated the archers through 90 degrees (in 5deg increments) the plane with the greatest movement shifted in accordance with the dominant plane of the major joints.

The conclusion was, an archers instability is concomitant with the dominant plane of motion of the major joints of the body (shoulder girdle, pelvic girdle knees ankles) and is at its most unstable when a plane is orthogonal to the target

John, we placed the feet parallel to the plane of the pelvis and shoulders and approximately the same width apart as the centre of rotation of the hips. We tried to keep any moments through the q angle of the legs as small as possible.

I do remember ... (It was a long time ago) we were getting strange reading from one guy ... turns out he had one leg significantly longer than the other
 

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Ok I misunderstood where 0 was in the test.

What you saying makes me consider both fencing positions and the old old archery form of leaning forward.

In fencing the forward foot is pointed towards the opponent(target.) I would have to say to me at least it feels more stable. But there is also some bend at the knees meaning muscles ate already in use which i sypposes addds a different sort of reactive stability.

In mot middle age pictures of archery its done with a sort of braced forward lean. i wonder how that effects stability.

I just find this sort of thing very interesting.
 

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A good way to practice good posture is to stand with your back against the wall. For me its usually the upper back that has 'straighten up'. Having a nice straight posture definitely helps to 'expand through' the shot. It allows a fuller expansion.
 

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Neither Coach Lee or KSL suggest tilting the chin down. Lee says tilting the head down brings the drawing elbow up. I believe both advocate the neck is in line with the spine.

I've had some discussion on the chin down. When you're looking through binos you chin is up if anything so you can see better. KSL says the head should be as a 'king surveying his realm'. Don't think I've ever been in a kings realm, but I'd think that's it's chin slightly up.

Bowmania
 

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Always try to keep your back straight and your shoulders down. I had problems with my spine from an early age, so weights made everything more difficult for me. However, I started doing cardio instead. This really helped me do strengthen my core, and somehow overcompensate the weightlifting exercises. To help my back even more, I bought a back straightener that I think made the difference for me. For three months I wore it 24/7, and my back posture improved considerably, you can find more information online. I would suggest something like this if you have similar problems. I’m also open to other advice. Thanks.
 

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IMHO this illustrates the differences between trad vs. traditional (old school). For me form is defined as an amalgam of Fred Bear, Fred Asbell, and Byron Ferguson. Knees bent; lean slightly forward (athletic "ready position"); split finger "hook" (3-under used to be called Apache style). Fingers touch arrow nock, which should not be near the eye!!! Middle finger anchors to corner of mouth; optional secondary anchor: thumb knuckle touches ear lobe. Static release.

For me the "synthesis" of Olympian with Traditional archery > Trad, is a Hegelian nightmare. I look forward to responses. :cool:
 

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"keeping slight tone in your butt is good. Its complimentary to standing up straight and has other health benefits."
Popular with the ladies as well ;) I really enjoyed the urinal discussion but still unclear as to hip rotation . . . I currently think of it as keeping my hips under the upper body and over my feet so I am not hunched forward but maintaining an upright stable posture that is repeatable, results in a consistent head position and allows me to draw with my core. I've only been shooting a little over a year but from the start I wanted to avoid the shoulder issues that plague so many archers and the KSL method seems to work for me - so far so good. I would add that discussions on this forum really stand apart from others in their depth, respectful tone, and lack of dogmatism . . . Border aside :poop:
 
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