Trad Talk Forums banner

Pointing vs gapping

18K views 93 replies 24 participants last post by  ghoster808 
#1 ·
Okay so here goes I have been back to barebow from the srf sight to try and devise an aiming system that I can use in compition without having to shoot against peeps and sights and have been messing with gapping and pointing(welch,hank style)

Here is what I have found I shoot better pointing than I do gapping? Gap is effective if you are a good judge of distance and have a calculating mind and I can shoot pretty good gapping at the bow however I shoot even better when I just point at the target??

This is kinda hard to explain, but if I imagine a laser pointer attached to my bow hand and just point it at the target I seem to hit right where I am pointing funny thing is this system works for me from 10-40+ yards.

Now I am not into magic and am not sure why this works, but it sure seems to work well for me. I know in my heart that a gap system is probably more accurate, but I just can't seem to shoot as well gapping as I can pointing?

Has anyone else messed with this much besides Hank? It seems like more like visualization of the arrow flight than aiming conventionally I will be sure and keep you guys posted on how things progress from here just wanted to hear your thoughts on this???
 
See less See more
#2 ·
master it.......believe in it........and it will blow just about every other "traditional way of shooting barebow" away.......not to take anything away from the guys like rod that have gapping down. i went back to barebow from the srf after i missed 4 does in a row early season.......not a thing to do with the srf as i could light matches with it when i practiced.......i simply could not shoot live animals with it.........i had the worst tp i've had in years the minute i tried to use that sight on a live animal.............

since working via the wire and phone with hank........figuring out where he was comming from......i had started shooting 3d in the summer barebow using the "laser bowhand pointing thing" and found that once i had my bow set up for it........and that's the key........your bow has to be set up for it.......it is an awesome way of shooting a bow barbow.......so i too...pulled the srf and went to the "laser pointing bow hand" for hunting .......and.....killed the next deer i shot at the way it should be done with out tp and without thinking about how far or anything else beyond just the shot.......and.....have never looked back to anyother way of shooting since.

last i heard from him.......deathwind in west va was having a great year shooting this way and roger rothhaar prettty much shoots this way for sure.....and that in itself pretty much sums up what one can expect if one masters this way of shooting......roger's wall puts this way of shooting right up at the top of the pyramid.....and then of course you have welch......who pretty much can shoot against all commers ......gap...sights.....poa.....and go home with the money..........with the bowarm............

and the best thing about it..........when you have your bow set up for it......and you have your form down for doing it........it's just so much fun shooting this way.........it's the pure essence of barebow shooting........you point your bow hand ........and hit what you want to hit.......it is truely the "kiss" way of shooting a bow barebow.........

so......'kid.......you've opened up that can again........here we go........i'm gonna pour myself 3 fingers of herradura.......sip and watch.......b
 
#4 ·
Elkdreamer,

You just did a way better job of describing it than I can, but that has been my experiance as well. I can shoot pretty decent with the srf, but wanted to wean myself off of it for 3-d season and have been talking with bob gordon and hank about the way they shoot and hanks system just comes natural to myself and my equipment. It is funny because I tried to tell a fella I know about how it works and he looked at me like I had two heads, but then I shot with him and he was not saying a word.

It is becoming apparent to me that i need to just trust it and shoot it and forget about everything else.

I wasn't really out for a debate to each his own just meant to find someone like yourself that has given this enough time to comment on thanks for the comment.

Jordan
 
G
#6 ·
As far as setting your bow up for it, that's where Welsh comes in...

...tune your bow to your hand/arrow, just like "instinctive" guys will tune to their "spot"...

You can raise your brace a LOT higher than you might think without adversely effecting carbon arrow flight because of the way carbons behave...

Interestingly, I'm just starting to learn about string walking and at shorter distances there's a very similar principle at work...they take it even farther than most Hanky Panky guys...

Now the die hard gappers aren't going to like this part, since many really swear by perfectly tuning their arrows to their bow...and they've got a good point...

But I know Jordan (Albertakid) shoots a high performance bow, something called a DAS...and ElkDreamer shoots one of the most underrated high performance 'curves out there...the Waipiti with 'boo limbs (be careful buying them used though...)and you'd be surprised how far out this system works to...

Was just PMing Jordan that for me, it breaks down at around 35-40...then I have to lower my anchor slightly...and that's my max hunting distance anyway...

Hank has said he's good out to 50...

And here's another point in favor of the system...IT'S FUN! Hey, what a concept...

I don't have to worry about 28 yards versus 33...19 versus 24...just concentrate on form and let them fly...

Now if I were shooting indoor, I'd either have my gap down cold or make sure my point on was the "X.":2cents:
 
#7 ·
Ogg said:
Interesting....elkdreamer, you mentioned having your bow set-up for it. Can you explain how one goes about setting up the bow for it?

Also, it sounds like we're talking about "instinctive" shooting or am I missing something? :confused:
now ogg.......your not going to get me in that " instinctive " room.........and i just leave it to you to decide what you've missed.......[not much...lol]........funny........one of the things that everyone seems to miss when they start beating on fred asbell is........the importance.......that fred puts on pointing the bow arm.........everyones into how ol' fred bends and swings......and how ol' fred has done more to ruin traditonal archery than anyone since it's beginnings...............shoot with fred someday.......get beyond his "pitch" ............what do you really see...........he's shooting the bowarm......pure and simple........he just gets there his way........and then go take a look at what fred has hanging on his wall.........nuf said............

ogg.....maybe hank will jump in here about setup........i know there are a couple of old threads in the archives.......the essence being........ i have my bow setup for 3 under off a rest......[homemade]........what you really want to do is get your point of aim at a mark where your bowarm is pointing before gravity takes a big hold of the arrow you are shooting......[mine is setup for 27 yrds].........i mean flatout deadon at whatever point you pick for your 3d or hunting...[and this is pretty much how das wants one to set up his sight ]....before you have to fight the arch of the arrow............once that is done..........the imaginary laser from your bowarm will work from 10yrd on out to the gravity pickup like ugly on a ape..........point your bowarm......shoot.........and just grin from ear to ear as everyone standing around looks on with their mouths open.........well......it does take a little work getting into .........and........like the gappers......and the sight guys.......and the poa shooters......when you get out to the gravity ranges.......just pick a spot above what you want to hit with the bowarm and shoot that spot and watch your arrow follow the arch into your mark..........now yeah.....at that point one has to have somewhere withall about his arrow flight.....gravity and range..........

from zero to x amount of yards beyond your point on.....[the gravity pick up point ].......once you have your bow set up for it [knocking point is a big factor in this]........your bow arm will auto the range everytime if you just visualize that laser beam leaving your bowarm on through to your mark.......just shoot the " beam "..............it's a visualizing of angle done through the bowarm in one straight line.......

ever see someone who really does say he's an " instinctive " shooter...........watch him.........look at his bowarm........if he's shooting in the "wow factor class".........he's using his bowarm.....be it known to him or not.............b
 
#8 ·
Atlantis said:
As far as setting your bow up for it, that's where Welsh comes in...

...tune your bow to your hand/arrow, just like "instinctive" guys will tune to their "spot"...

Interestingly, I'm just starting to learn about string walking and at shorter distances there's a very similar principle at work...they take it even farther than most Hanky Panky guys...
:
yeah pete......i've shoot 3 under.....double knocking point........been playing around with holding the bowarm as usual for longer shots by knocking my arrow under my low point for the shot.........r & d in stringwalking the hanky way .......maybe.......work in progress.......but it does increase the bowarm range effectively.............b
 
#12 ·
Now if I were shooting indoor, I'd either have my gap down cold or make sure my point on was the "X."

Using the point method, right out of the box, first night of league, haven't shot a ton of arrows in months and since powder coating the riser having some grip issues, shot a 253. Arrow tip is some where on the floor.

I believe once I get my grip issues solved and take the time to set the bow up (making sure its tuned and the impact point is where I want it) I should be able to post some decent scores just pointing. I believe it is possible to post some scary scores using this method.

I also feel the lower you can anchor and use this method, the further out it will work. At first you see it more than feel it, but after time the sense becomes stronger and then yoda will appear and you get your secret undies :)
 
#13 ·
I'm using a pointing system, as I said in another thread it almost feels like cheating, and it is fun. I haven't gotten my bow or tuned yet to just point at the spot, I plan on more experimenting after deer season.

At 10 yards I "point" my arrow at a spot 6-8" below what I want to hit, I don't really focus on the arrow point, I focus on the bulls eye and adjust my bow arm until the arrow tip is 6-8" low. Actually using the lazer beam thought the beam probably would be pointing right at the target.

This works out to 35 yards, (which is the farthest I've had a chance to try it so far.) I realize that as I move back the target gets smaller and the gap does at well, however my sight picture doesn't really seem to change.

Hard to explain LOL.
 
#17 ·
Well good on him :). I just know no matter if ya gap, poa, point, or sight the most important thing there is, is that your "believe" ya can make the shot. Maybe "confidence" never shoots the arrow but it is what caused the arrow to hit the mark :)

confidence, is the one thing that all good shots have in common...might be the only thing though.

rusty
 
#19 ·
I got to add my 2 cents on this also. I've been shooting the pointing method that elkdreamer and Hank told me about since about August and it is the best thing that has happened to my bowhunting. I've taken a total of 7 animals this season so far and still have a few more tags to fill before the season runs out. My longest shot so far as been around 30 yards and I center punched her perfectly on what would otherwise have been a difficult shot. Now for how I got my bow setup. I am anchoring at the corner of my mouth and I imagine my index finger pointing at what I want to hit. If I would look at where my arrow is pointing, it would be way to the left of where I am looking( I'm shooting left handed ). You are not trying to look down the arrow . The main thing is to get your bow setup to where it hits where your finger is pointing. You may have to build the shelf on your bow out or change your anchor point slightly. You may have to move your nocking point but the main thing is to get the arrow hitting where your bowhand is pointing. I set my bow up shooting at 20 yards and it's good out to 40 yards. I don't know how it works but it works.
 
#20 ·
Lots of factors contributing to your vertical impact point -- nocking point, angle of the grip, shooting off the shelf or a rest, size of the nock on your arrow, and your anchor point shooting either split or 3 under.

Left right issues can be dealt with by taking in or building out the side plate and/or tab thickness. As Ricky Welch says in Tape #2, you can move the arrow to the right on the target by putting a thicker, cushiony side plate on (sounds weird, but it works)

Some people's set ups are good to go and others need to be tweaked.

Like I said, the lower your anchor point the further out it will work. The heavier the arrows, it won't work out to quite as far.

Rule of thumb...go with the best form alignment you have and tweak from there. I like my anchor point and alignment now and if it didn't work with split finger, I would go to 3 under to make it work.
 
#21 ·
I wasn't trying to stir the pot by mentioning the "i" word, just trying to understand what the heck you guys were talking about. Still not sure I get it...exactly. Point me to some of the old threads where it was discussed....or at least give me a key word to search on. I'm curious...... :help:
 
#23 ·
heeeyyyyyy ogg......that instinctive pot needs all the stirring it can get.......i don't have a clue how to get the search engine here going if it's not hammering on key wording........ie......"the hanky way".......or...??????

but.....the essence of this way of shooting can pretty much be gleaned from what's been posted already on this thread by the 'kid/atlantis/deathwind/hank..........you need to have your arrows tuned to your bow.......you need a sandbank or a big round bale.....something that you can shoot at from a distance that you would choose as your absolute dead on target or hunting shot........be it 25 yrds/27yrds/35yrds.......again arrow weight plays into this picture......we're talking out of the bow straight to the mark before gravity/friction starts the shaft downhill........you set the bow up via.....arrow rest or shelf........side plate........knocking point.[split or 3 under].....brace height........for a perfect indexfinger or bowarm "laser beam" arrow strike to your absolute dead on chosen mark.........and you keep playing with your setup until your bowarm/eye and arrow all meet at that spot........you do not need to have the arrow in the so called eye over position as far as your anchor point goes.......but you must work with a repeatable anchor pt/bow set up that gives you this shot every time.......
you must in essence become a shooting machine untill you have the arrow going to that bowarm pointed spot.....tunning the bow to shoot to that spot until it happens.........when you get there.........then from whatever distance ........out to where gravity grabs hold.......you always shoot your bowarm point.........again......the illusion of an imaginary laser beam comming out of your bowarm or index finger going directly to the mark........set your bow up......hold your shooting form.......constant anchor........and your bow arm will never let you down through its effective range......you never think about range.......you just shoot........and flip out over the joy of hitting what you shoot at.........without having to be a fricking computer to do it........as atlantis and hank have said.........you have no clue what pure joy shooting barebow can be until you give this a real in depth try..............b
 
#24 ·
Hank, I shot a bunch of rabbits in Wyoming using your method. I was meaning 7 big game animals so far this season. I've got Dave Wallace building me a longbow and when he has it made and before the finish goes on, he's going to have me "sight it in" with your method. Dave is going to take some off a limb or what ever it needs to get it to hit where I am pointing. Then he will put the finish on. He's in the process of building it now. I've got my DAS set up with your style of aiming and it's incredible. I was shooting yesterday in my backyard and shot some of the best 25 yard groups that I ever have. I've talked to Wallace a little more about your aiming style and he's going to give it another try. I think he was trying to actually look down his arm at the target, similar to gapping instead of just pointing.
 
G
#26 ·
Funny thing is...not knowing any better...I thought this style WAS what everyone was calling instinctive...lol...

Couldn't figure out why for me, some bows worked better than others...

One of the reasons I couldn't shoot a Warf worth a darn at first...at 20 yards with light arrows I had to aim so low I lost my sight picture...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top