Gil, are you still planning on doing sound testing? (Or maybe I missed the results.)

 

Yes. Before I change anything I will test.

When I did the bow noise testing the two biggest bangs for the buck were Bow Hush and the small Brush Buttons, so I am going to just install them and test the difference. In the noise tests I used Cat Whiskers, which did not reduce decibels, but did lower the frequency dramatically (which I like). That was at a cost of 4 fps in speed, while there was no loss of speed with the Bow Hush and Brush buttons. When I am done testing these bows, I want to try some other string silencers to see if I can find one that lowers decibels and frequency with less loss in speed.

My wife put her foot down so I have to do some projects on my house for the next few days and the sound testing has to be done at 20 yards outside.

Tuesday through Friday next week I will be Steelhead and big trout fishing in NY, so I probably won't get to the sound testing until I come back.

Then again, I am a procrastinator when it comes to projects I have to do at home, so the real me will probably get the sound testing done on Friday as long as there is no rain.

My wife and I have been together for 50 years and married for 45 years. All my friends call her Saint Vera (because she is married to me). She wouldn't mind if I did the tests instead of the other projects, but sometimes I actually feel guilty and have to get some stuff done! Ha!

 

What happens when the N4s come out..LOL

 

N3 Pros are that I guess, 100% carbon! Breathn seemed pretty impressed with his pair. TBH all-carbon limbs make me nervous. I'm comforted by a bug sturdy stick of glass running the length of a monolith style limb, as with the N3's

 

The N3s I ordered are in NY already. I hope I get them earlier than Monday.

 

Your lucky. I ordered a set of N3 shorts on March 1, to hunt turkey with this spring. They tell me they won't ship until the end of the month.

 

Gil, I said this on a different thread but I’ll say it here too since it may save heartache for someone.
John told me he had 2 sets of the Nika Pros fail within 200 shots. He won’t be getting more of them.
The N3s however are bulletproof.

 

Very good info, cheers. Also goes to show that the all-carbon monolith structural problems are not Uukha's failings per se - it's a tough engineering and material science challenge that others face. It may be that robust all-carbon pre-preg limbs are a pipe dream. Glad I held back on these.

 

I'm stuck Gil.....N3's or that chainsaw?

Great testing and discussion, thanks for taking the time to put it all together.

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

 

I just bought a second set of Nika N3s, but I should have bought that chainsaw! I have to take down several trees by my home that I have to climb and chunk down, since they are too close to my house (the southern pine beetle got them).

At least it will be good practice for one stepping in a saddle.

 

Mine are in NJ. I don't see shorts listed so I guess they were a special order.

Arrived at DHL Delivery Facility EAST WINDSOR - USA, Tracking Code: 6 9 9 9 2 4 1 3 0 3
March, 22 2024 07:35 Local time, EAST WINDSOR - New Jersey - USA
Origin Service Area : HONG KONG - HONG KONG SAR, CHINA




Destination Service Area : EAST WINDSOR - New Jersey - USA
Estimated Time of Arrival
March, 25 2024 - By End of Day

 

Wow just got a text message the N3 limbs will be delivered today.

 

I ordered a string from within the US and USPS took a whole month to deliver it.

 

These limbs are laminated!
I posted a picture the same time JPH! High Modulus carbon is not Monolith structure. Glass layers.

DDD

 

Wow I just got the N3s. Ordered Sunday night and delivered Friday afternoon from China. Nika and DHL have their stuff together.

Going to add these heavier ones to the tests. I still have everything set up with the chrono and shooting machine.

 

I tested the new Nika N3 limbs. The limbs are 32#/70 longs. I put them on a 19" riser. On the 19" riser they are 37.97# @ 28" and 41.8# @ 30".

I shot these limbs at my draw of 30".

The riser was still set up with the C2 limbs. I did a control test and the C2 limbs achieved the same results from the other day. Then I set up the new N3 limbs and set the brace height. Then I scaled them.

I left the limb bolts in as with the prior tests. Here is what it did. Scroll the table to the right to see the performance index.

Bow	Draw Wieght Pounds	Arrow Wieght Grains M=Mass	Arrow Grains Per Pound GPP	Speed FPS V=Velocity	Kinetic Energy - KE = (m*v2)/450,800.	Monentum - Slugs = (m*v)/225400	Perf Index % = (KE/Draw Weight)*100.00
Border	38.00	641.00	16.87	153	33.29	0.44	87.59
N3 28/70	38.00	641.00	16.87	154	33.72	0.44	88.74
N3 32/70	41.80	641.00	15.33	162	37.32	0.46	89.27
SX50	36.50	641.00	17.56	152	32.85	0.43	90.01
c2	37.00	641.00	17.32	144	29.48	0.41	79.69
Border	38.00	481.00	12.66	172	31.57	0.37	83.07
N3 28/70	38.00	481.00	12.66	172	31.57	0.37	83.07
N3 32/70	41.80	481.00	11.51	183	35.73	0.39	85.48
SX50	36.50	481.00	13.18	172	31.57	0.37	86.48
c2	37.00	481.00	13.00	162	28.00	0.35	75.68
Border	38.00	395.00	10.39	186	30.31	0.33	79.77
N3 28/70	38.00	395.00	10.39	186	30.31	0.33	79.77
N3 32/70	41.80	395.00	9.45	198	34.35	0.35	82.18
SX50	36.50	395.00	10.82	186	30.31	0.33	83.05
c2	37.00	395.00	10.68	176	27.14	0.31	73.36

 

Informative, thanks! As I expected, performance improves as draw weight to limb mass ratio balances out with these particular limbs.

 

The N3 lbs just keep impressing me!

 

Would it be a more fair comparison to turn the limb bolts out until the new N3 limbs measure 38 lbs at 30”?

 

I am going to do some testing for sound and then I am turning the bolts back out. The bolts aren't bottomed out, they are just lower than I like and probably where most people like them.

Then I am going to record what my SX50, 2 N3 sets of limbs and my Borders do on the 19". Those tests are just to show me which pair, I want to hunt with and I won't be posting any more tests after the one I just did.

I posted these because there was interest in Nika limbs.

 

For $300 you’re getting $600+ in performance with the N3s. In the days of high inflation we are getting 1/2 price high performance limbs. Even better for $600 you get a set of practice/3D limbs and a set of hunting limbs.

 

Put the new N3’s on the 25” riser?

 

Its no problem doing that. I have all day tomorrow.

 

Many thanks, Gil!

 

I am going to swap out my XL SX50 limbs on my camo Tribute with either the SX50 or N3 longs for hunting this year.

I have to test the three on that riser. Then it will be time to break out the rattle cans. The Borders are going on the 21" Das and they are already spray bombed.

 

But when a 30# bow with a 300 gr arrow is compared with a 40# bow with a 400 gr arrow the performance index will determine the relative performance between bows.

Look at the lightest arrow stats. The SX50 limbs were 1.5# lighter at nearly the same grains per pound. They shot the same speed of the Border and Nika N3 yet their performance index the SX50 takes the lead.

The C2 limbs were 0.5# heavier at nearly the same gpp and the SX50 shot 10 fps faster and the performance index blows it away.

In each test the SX50 had the highest performance index even though the gpp were not the same, shows the SX50 limbs as the clear winner in performance.

Heavier is only better when the performance of the limbs are the same. Will Border Hex 7.5 @ 45# perform better than Nika C2 @ 50# or will the Nika limbs be 5 fps faster?

 

But when a 30# bow with a 300 gr arrow is compared with a 40# bow with a 400 gr arrow the performance index will determine the relative performance between bows.

Yes, that is so. But if both of the bows have the same brand and model of limb, the 40# set will perform better than the 30# set, despite the fact that both will be shooting at 10 gpp.

[/QUOTE]Look at the lightest arrow stats. The SX50 limbs were 1.5# lighter at nearly the same grains per pound. They shot the same speed of the Border and Nika N3 yet their performance index the SX50 takes the lead.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, despite being 1.5# lighter, the SX50 limbs performed just as well in terms of speed. If they had been the same draw weight as the others, their Performance Index would have been even a little better, not much, but a little.

The C2 limbs were 0.5# heavier at nearly the same gpp and the SX50 shot 10 fps faster and the performance index blows it away.

In each test the SX50 had the highest performance index even though the gpp were not the same, shows the SX50 limbs as the clear winner in performance.

Yes, the SX50 are the highest performing limb in your testing, clearly.

[/QUOTE]Heavier is only better when the performance of the limbs are the same. Will Border Hex 7.5 @ 45# perform better than Nika C2 @ 50# or will the Nika limbs be 5 fps faster?
[/QUOTE]
Border's table suggests that if you compare the same limbs, a set of those limbs that is heavier (higher draw weight) will be faster than a lighter set of the same limbs, even if both are shooting arrows at the same gpp. That's it.

In your example above, the 50# C2s would look a bit faster, in comparison to the 45# Hex 7.5s, than would a set of 45# C2s. That is all.

I think that you're absolutely correct that comparing two bows at the same gpp is the way to go.

But if you're looking for a precise, apples to apples comparison between limbs, ideally you'd also have the two sets of limbs at the same draw weight. Otherwise, the set of limbs that is heavier is going to look better than they are, and the set of limbs that is lighter is going to look a bit worse than they are.

E.g. If you've got two sets of SX50 limbs, one set 35# and the other 40#, let's say (just plugging in ballpark figures, mind) you might get figures like this:

35# SX50 throws a 350 grain arrow (10 gpp) at 190fps, with KE of 28.03, for a Performance Index of 80.01

40# SX50 shows a 400 grain arrow (10 gpp) at 195fps (just using a nominal +5 fps adjustment, per Border's table), with KE of 33.74 and Performance Index of 84.35

So even though both are shooting arrows at the same 10 gpp, the heavier set of limbs outperforms the lighter set of limbs. That's the only point I'm making.

If we look at your table of excellent data, we can almost make a comparison like this with the 28# and 32# N3s on the same riser:

However, because the gpp is different, we can't be sure how much of the Performance Index advantage seen by the 32# set is due to this working limb mass/core mass ratio effect, and how much is due to the difference in arrow weights, as the 28# limbs are throwing a heavier arrow than the 32# limbs in this case.

But if you shot both of these setups again at the same gpp, you'd get a good feel for how much better the 32# set performs than the 28# set. And you'd have some notion of whether Nika N3 monolith limbs "play by the same rules" as conventional laminated limbs, in this respect.

 

Well I decided what limb goes where and which limb will be hunted this year.

The heavier Nika N3 limbs are going to have the ILF bushing swapped out for Das and are going to replace my SX50 XL limbs on my camo Tribute hunting riser. Once they are on this riser it is rattle can time.

The SX50 limbs I tested are going on my unpainted Tribute riser.

The Borders are already on my 21" Dalaa riser with Das bushings.

The light Nika N3 limbs are going on my 25" DMS riser for a form bow.

The Nika C2 I will sell.

The SX50 XL limbs are being retired for now. If I use them again I will crank down the limb bolts to add a little preload.

Speed testing is done for now.

 

What weight are your XL Uukhas?

 

They are 40# on 25", but I camoed them for hunting.

 

If anybody is interested there is a great set of light SX50 30# longs on AT from Dominator. I bought several risers at bargain basement prices from him. He is a good guy to deal with.

These limbs are near new for $300.

https://www.archerytalk.com/threads/uuhka-sx50-longs-30lbs-for-26-to-28-lbers.6242183/#post-1116068298

 

Tagged for later

 

Since I completed these tests I purchased a set of Uukha Irbis (100% carbon) long limbs. I am shooting them on my 25" DMS. They are lighter in draw weight at 35.5 # @ 30" on the DMS riser. I will re weigh them when I am completed setting up this combinations.

When I am done setting the bow up, I will test the performance on the shooting machine.

I am shooting this combination better than any other combination I have. This year I am going to hunt a whitetail close with a micro diameter arrow and this rig.

I will update these tests with the Irbis limbs. I know I have enough KE and momentum, but I just like to know for sure.

Like we always say, "it's where you hit them that counts" and with this rig I will hit them where I want consistently.

 

Are you going to add the kit I sent you before and after test result?
DDD

 

No I want to see what bow the kit will fit better.

I thought the Tribute would be the bow for the kit, since the DMS has the flanged tiller bolt and less of a gap. I want to use the bumpers for the DMS too, especially since I am going to hunt with it.

I am going to test before I add anything as a control test and then after I add each accessory I will install, like I did in the noise test. I want to try to eliminate the cat whiskers, since I lost over 4 fps with them.

Once I get the kit I will contact you about fit and placement for the bow. Right now I am not sure where the tiller bolts will wind up on the DMS. Once I get the bow completely set up and tuned then I will install a set on it.

 

It's a kit. Not just one piece. All three work together. I have just the pads on my bolt down and one piece. Works great. The new version. DDD Double Dead Damper .250 will work over the flange in small space.
You'll see. The DDS, Double Dead Soild is .500 for riser with more pocket space.
DDD

 

Great.

I guarantee I will test them and report back to you. The first thing to go on will be the EPE Limb Bumpers after the control test on the DMS. Since these are light draw weight limbs I would like to get all the performance I can out of them.