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Whether a copy or not, thank goodness they did since as far as I know Uukha no longer makes that DFC style limb. I'd bet good money if Nika's limb is successful they'll continue to evolve their limbs in a different direction than Uukha. It would be nice to have a wide varied choice of these cool carbon monolith limbs in the future.
I would be shocked if they evolved their limbs. Their product portfolio does not appear to reflect much innovation. Regarding the N3, to my eye, it appears that they said, "Hey, that Progressive Curve limb that Uukha discontinued is great. It might be the sweetspot limb profile for a lot of folks. The Ex1 Evo2 was extremely popular and performed great. Why would they discontinue it? Let's continue it. We'll copy it, and crib from their marketing materials too. Given lower production costs here, we can even increase the carbon content, and thereby the performance, and sell a superior product cheaper. And since we don't have environmental regulations here, we can use really bomber epoxies and varnishes that Uukha, with their stated commitment to environmental-friendly production, won't."

Very typical Chinese company style. I lived and worked in China for a long time. I've seen this type of thing many times. It's been going on for a very long time. See the book 400 million customers for a hilarious historical perspective.

Now, who cares? I'm not making a moral judgement.

From a practical perspective, as someone considering Gobi vs N3, I think Nika's N3 is actually a better product because they copied Uukha's "monolith" limb fabrication tech, and because they copied the "Progressive Curve" limb profile. If they had developed their own tech and limb from scratch, it would probably suck. They'd have needed several product cycles to work out the kinks, just like all new products require. Having skipped a lot of that, they appear to have produced a winner right off the blocks. So the limb is worth buying, and might be better than some or all of Uukha's current product line. Of course, that's why companies copy other company's products.

Nika wins, the consumer wins. Uukha probably loses, maybe a little, maybe a lot. No one seems to care about Uukha, and I'm not making a value judgement about that either. (Or if I am I'm not gonna mention it, and certainly don't want to get into a moral debate on the internet.)
 

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I would be shocked if they evolved their limbs. Their product portfolio does not appear to reflect much innovation. Regarding the N3, to my eye, it appears that they said, "Hey, that Progressive Curve limb that Uukha discontinued is great. It might be the sweetspot limb profile for a lot of folks. The Ex1 Evo2 was extremely popular and performed great. Why would they discontinue it? Let's continue it. We'll copy it, and crib from their marketing materials too. Given lower production costs here, we can even increase the carbon content, and thereby the performance, and sell a superior product cheaper. And since we don't have environmental regulations here, we can use really bomber epoxies and varnishes that Uukha, with their stated commitment to environmental-friendly production, won't."

Very typical Chinese company style. I lived and worked in China for a long time. I've seen this type of thing many times. It's been going on for a very long time. See the book 400 million customers for a hilarious historical perspective.

Now, who cares? I'm not making a moral judgement.

From a practical perspective, as someone considering Gobi vs N3, I think Nika's N3 is actually a better product because they copied Uukha's "monolith" limb fabrication tech, and because they copied the "Progressive Curve" limb profile. If they had developed their own tech and limb from scratch, it would probably suck. They'd have needed several product cycles to work out the kinks, just like all new products require. Having skipped a lot of that, they appear to have produced a winner right off the blocks. So the limb is worth buying, and might be better than some or all of Uukha's current product line. Of course, that's why companies copy other company's products.

Nika wins, the consumer wins. Uukha probably loses, maybe a little, maybe a lot. No one seems to care about Uukha, and I'm not making a value judgement about that either. (Or if I am I'm not gonna mention it, and certainly don't want to get into a moral debate on the internet.)
The environmental issues concern me, I will look into that. I doubt anyone working with carbon fibre, which some believe is the modern day asbestos, can claim high and mighty on the environmental front. This already bugs me about carbon arrows, which are worse in that we lose them and break them. Limbs we should not be breaking and losing. With the great many cited limb failures, Uukha would do well to copy Nika on production quality I think.

As for the rest, I for one worry not. And neither do the fellow archers next to me on the range here in Paris with Uukhas. Nika have done what Hoyt, W&W and any other limb maker has done. Studied the competition and improved, building in their niche. IMO the CEO of Nika, an Olympiad, knows what he's doing - there's perhaps a reason you rarely ever see S-curves at the top level.

Plenty of room for everyone, and it's not like Uukha is low on business. Looking forward to seeing other companies having a crack at it, in the coming years :)
 

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I would be shocked if they evolved their limbs. Their product portfolio does not appear to reflect much innovation. Regarding the N3, to my eye, it appears that they said, "Hey, that Progressive Curve limb that Uukha discontinued is great. It might be the sweetspot limb profile for a lot of folks. The Ex1 Evo2 was extremely popular and performed great. Why would they discontinue it? Let's continue it.
That's great. Hopefully if the line is successful they'll continue to develop it and provide more advanced limbs with that type of DFC.

From a practical perspective, as someone considering Gobi vs N3, I think Nika's N3 is actually a better product because they copied Uukha's "monolith" limb fabrication tech, and because they copied the "Progressive Curve" limb profile.
To build on a point that Remote pointed out earlier: The progressive and S DFC are not some new innovation. Modern recurve limb manufacturers did not invent it. Traditional Chinese bows have that type of draw curve, along with most static recurve asiatic bows. The Chinese military was using bows with that type of DFC into the 20th century and really only stopped with the adoption of repeating rifles. Bowyers and archers still exist from that continual (barely, it almost died out) living tradition.
 

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Put another way, without this competition on quality from Nika, Uukha have no real incentive to deal with their enduring production quality issues.

Competition is healthy. Uukha make a great limb. I reckon Nika might be just what Uukha needs to make them better.
 

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Put another way, without this competition on quality from Nika, Uukha have no real incentive to deal with their enduring production quality issues.

Competition is healthy. Uukha make a great limb. I reckon Nika might be just what Uukha needs to make them better.
Yeah, those are positives. The trick for Uukha is that they have much higher overhead being based in, and doing all their building, in France.

And you gotta wonder how long it will be before other limb manufacturers get into the monolith game. The combination of speed, durability and quietness possible with this construction style is close to game-changing. E.g. the older-gen Vx+ was 10 fps faster than Hoyt's $1000 Carbon Velos limbs, and was just as fast as the super-curve Morrison Max 6, but 10 decibels quieter. Gobi is supposedly only 2 fps slower than that top-of-the-line Uukha, and Nika's N3 is now reputed to be about as fast, with a tougher finish.

Nika has aimed at Gobi, and here we are. We might not even be having this conversation if the Euro wasn't hurting so bad.
 

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When comparing it should be do on the same riser, string, BH and tiller setting.
I don't know if John, who apparently said the N3's are a few fps faster than the Gobi's, used his shooting machine and same riser etc.

Relatedly a guy at the range today with UX1000's was buzzed by my N3s. The N3's looked equal or better in finish to these premium Uukhas. I offered to let him try on his Oly setup, and he offered to let me try his on my F261. Perhaps next week? Unclear if the weights will zero out to the same though. AFAIK these UX's are more conservative in DFC so that'll make an interesing albeit rough comparison. No chrono on site.
 

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I don't know if John, who apparently said the N3's are a few fps faster than the Gobi's, used his shooting machine and same riser etc.

Relatedly a guy at the range today with UX1000's was buzzed by my N3s. The N3's looked equal or better in finish to these premium Uukhas. I offered to let him try on his Oly setup, and he offered to let me try his on my F261. Perhaps next week? Unclear if the weights will zero out to the same though. AFAIK these UX's are more conservative in DFC so that'll make an interesing albeit rough comparison. No chrono on site.
Were they UX100 or VX1000? The former were Progressive Curve (so like Nika N3), the latter X-Curve (bigger curve than current S-Curve). In any case, will be interesting to hear your comparison.
 

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Now you know why the aussies dropped the sub deal, twix.
hahaha the famous submarine deal between France and Australia, horrible political and financial affair between anglo saxon and France, Boris Jonhson got a lot of responsability in this affair, and Biden too i m not going to talk a lot about that, i wish you aussies you make the good choice at the end but i think you put your foot in a trap.
you wanted french diesel submarine because you can't have nuclear one because the nuclear technologie can't be given to the states who don't have the nuclear bomb, and because you don't know how to do it.
at the end you wanted a nuclear sub and usa brake the rules by giving you this technologies.
i don't know if one day you will got this fabulous american sub and how you will doing the maintenance .
you probably have to send the sub to the usa for the maintenance at a good price.
so usa , great britain and Australia did a secret coallition to brake the french deal, not gentle for allies.
never mind our sub technologies is famous and others country in the world are interested by.
the french sub coating is not made by uukha any way so we are not worry for selling our tec in the future
 

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it makes a moment, that i'm asking to me , why uukha coating is so bad.
at the end my conclusion is:
uukha makes his own Carbon monolyte, and they got a unique materials better than the others and secret, because the others can't do the same monolyte they can't have the same performance even by copying the geometrie.
the problem with uukha carbon monolyte is:
there is no coating can be well apply in this planet, i suppose they are still schearching a receipe who can do the job , and don't find it allready.
in the world there are some synthétic materials you can't glue or paint because chemistry reasons.
may be the uukha monolyte is like that.
but i'm sure they is no reason to choose a bad coating, i'm sure it come from a techonologic issue.
 

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Were they UX100 or VX1000? The former were Progressive Curve (so like Nika N3), the latter X-Curve (bigger curve than current S-Curve). In any case, will be interesting to hear your comparison.
Ahh yes, UX100*. Seems I put an extra zero by mistake. Yes and as I say they're more conservative as a DFC so will make an interesting comparison with the N3's. I note on these UX100 limbs the carbon cloth was not perfectly even/straight, but certainly not in bad shape. Good looking limbs, curious to try them.
 

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I was looking at some draw/force curves and noticed that the initial peak in draw force is around 19" draw length, then a flat spot, then another increase beyond 24" or so. So I thought comparing 19" and 28" would be a useful indicator of how much a limb stacks early and then lets off on the back end.

Nika N3 (from here):
30# @ 19"
43# @ 28"
70% DW at 19" DL

Uukha Ex1 Evo2 (from TradLab)
30# @ 19"
42.66# @ 28"
70% DW at 19" DL

Uukha VX+ (X-Curve, from Tradlab)
38# @ 19"
46.15# @ 28"
82.5% DW at 19" DL

I can't find a draw/force curve for any S-Curve limbs, so can't compare Gobi/SX-50 to the above, but Uukha has this graphic with nominal curves for comparison of their X-Curve, Progressive Curve (aka Curve) and S-Curve lines:

Human body Font Auto part Circle Science


From this we might extrapolate approximate Gobi/Sx50 numbers :
34.5# @ 19"
45# @ 28"
77% DW @ 19" DL

(If anyone has an actual draw/force curve for any S-Curve limbs, please let us know)

And some further comparisons:

A more traditional limb, the Hoyt Carbon Velos (from TradLab):
27.5# @ 19"
42# @ 28"
65% DW @ 19" DL

Border's CVX limbs are often described as similar to Uukha in that they are kind of midway between traditional and super-curve limbs. Again, from TradLab.com:
33# @ 19"
41# @ 28"
81% DW @ 19" DL

Morrison Max6, TradLab has data for these limbs as well:
36.5# @ 19"
45.5# @ 28"
80% DW @ 19" DL

And from Border's data, the super curve CV9:

38.39# @ 19"
44.16# @ 28"
87% DW @ 19" DL

So with CV9, at only 19 inches into the draw, you've already pulled almost 90% of the total weight you'll be holding at anchor.

I didn't include speed numbers above, but it appears that the percentage drawn @19" correlates pretty well with fps, which makes sense. The only real exceptions might be Gobi and Nika.

I've seen some off-the-finger data showing that the S-Curve SX+ limbs are just as fast or faster than the VX+ limbs, despite having less area under the draw/force curve, and so presumably storing less energy than the X-Curve series. Indeed, Uukha claim that SX+ limbs are 3-4 fps faster than the curvier VX+. So the question is, how are they getting as much or more speed with less aggressive curves?

Similarly, there are reports that Nika N3s are just as fast as Gobis, despite their draw force curves being nearly identical to the Ex1 Evo2's, and so having quite a bit less area under the curve, and therefore, theoretically, storing less potential energy.

It's too bad we don't have shooting machine data for Gobi/Sx50 and Nika N3.


To sum up the data above, the amount of peak draw force already pulled 19 inches into the draw can vary from 65% in a traditional recurve limb to 87% in a super recurve limb. The Nika N3 is not far away from traditional, at 70%, and the Gobi somewhere in the middle of the range, at an estimated 77%.
 

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I've seen some off-the-finger data showing that the S-Curve SX+ limbs are just as fast or faster than the VX+ limbs, despite having less area under the draw/force curve, and so presumably storing less energy than the X-Curve series. Indeed, Uukha claim that SX+ limbs are 3-4 fps faster than the curvier VX+. So the question is, how are they getting as much or more speed with less aggressive curves?

the Sx are more light and thiner so have more speed in theory
 
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