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Discussion Starter #1
For the ones that reside in MN. contact your Rep & Sen for HF 2573 & SF 2018 that will make legal the crossbow legal for 60&over and vote no! This will open the door for any age. The NRA is pushing the crossbow, which they did in Wi., and it should belong in the gun/ml season and not in the bow season. Mn. has been smart enough to vote this down several other times and have kept the scope off the ml rifles during the ml season.
Wi. passed it in the bow season but as a separate tag, the NRA were very active in this and went against WBH recommendations. What is ironic the only no vote came from the lone Dem Rep and the rest yes was from the Republican Reps.
If anyone has friends or family in Mn give them heads up and contact their rep/sen asp.
 

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Why ?

What is wrong with people 60 and over and youths using a crossbow

I am going to call everyone I know in that state and tell them to vote yes :)
 

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That is how it started here in PA. We now have an in-line muzzleloader season (with scopes) and crossbows are now legal archery equipment for anyone. Local shops sold a ton of them as guys flocked to buy a bow that didn't take practice and they could use to take 80 and 100 yard shots.
 

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I have and still do occasionally hunt with a crossbow. I am not elderly, and I am not a youth. The crossbow is a highly lethal and accurate weapon. I personally have not shot it at a deer over 25 yds, although given a clean shooting lane a 40 yd shot could be accurately taken. Why the opposition? If it's because you will get some idiot taking a 100 yd shot at a deer with it, you have an equal or greater amount of idiots with traditional equipment taking lousy shots. In no way is a crossbow as effective as a gun, it is much slower and has no where near the kinetic energy of a bullet. Most crossbows are no faster, and many are slower than modern compound bows. If you allow longbows, recurves, compound bows in the woods, many of them in the hands of poorly trained shooters, why not a crossbow? It is likely that a novice shooter will be much more accurate with a crossbow. Not sure I comprehend the anti-crossbow rhetoric.
 

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Urban

When Pope Innocent III banned use of crossbows against christians in 1139 the stigmatism seemed to have stuck :)

The crossbow as you know is an ancient weapon and does its job very well

I could never understand why people get so upset especially when it is used by someone that is old, children or just someone that does not have time to practice enough to be proficient with a vertical bow uses one

I would rather see a deer cleanly killed by a cross bow than shot in the arse by a die hard stick bow shooter

I for one do not like compound crossbows these are the evil ones :)

Recurve crossbows are fine :)

I have an Excalibur and its a blast to shoot

My middle daughter who shoots a recurve



Wants to shoot a deer

Since her recurve is just not heavy enough she also shoots the evil devils crossbow to great effect

Out of a blind with the for-end on a tripod she is very competent


Anything I can do to get my kids in the woods and anything I can do to spend more time with my kids is all good with me

Back to the bashing of the heathen devil weapon that allows the young the old and the crippled to enjoy the great outdoors :)

Give me a break
 

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Barbarian Tyrant
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I have an Excalibur Exocet 200 and hunt deer with it late in the season when I've got too many bulky clothes on to hunt with recurves. It extends my range by 10 yards for a whopping total of 40 yards.

I like all weapons and am not going to criticize or try to legislate away anyone's choice because of my personal feelings. I'm not that selfish.
 

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I have an Excalibur Exocet 200 and hunt deer with it late in the season when I've got too many bulky clothes on to hunt with recurves. It extends my range by 10 yards for a whopping total of 40 yards.

Unfortunately in my area you are the exception. These guys want long range shooters. Then they shoot carbon bolts and mechanical broadheads for extra speed, not realizing what they are losing in penetration. Lots of "I hit one but he got away" stories as a result of long range shooting from weapons not meant to shoot that far. Just because they have the long range accuracy, doesn't mean they have the energy to be effective as a hunting tool.
I hope that these guys are the minority, but unfortunately these tools stand out and are remembered. We have these people in the vertical bow realm, but they seem not to be as prevalent. Heck, I cringe when I hear some guy talk about shoot at a deer at 200 yards with his open sighted 30-30. Some guys can make it work but most cannot. I just hope that the guys who cannot do such know this and won't try with the result being a wounded deer.
Unfortunately we cannot regulate ethical hunting behavior so there will always be some abuse and effects of such.
 

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I will say I've seen more Crossbow archery hunters in the woods during archery season. But they seem to go away after a while, when they realize bow hunting can be alot different than gun hunting. The worst is they troll through the public woods instead of climbing up a stand or sit in a blind. Im waiting for one of them to push a big Buck right under my stand :)
 

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My hunting buddy has an Excalibur recurve crossbow open sights that he is allowed to use here because he is disabled. After spending some time shooting it in camp my thoughts are 1. It's loud as heck. 2. It's heavy and cumbersome. 3. Super slow to reload. 4. I am more accurate out to 40-50yards with my Hoyt Alphamax.
I wouldn't want to shoot one but glad it is an option for him to "stay in the game".

I also agree about the comments on some "traditional bow hunters". Just go to a local traditional 3d shoot an it becomes apparent pretty quick that many should put on a sight or pick up a compound.
 

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Joe, I agree with you, BUT I also disagree BECAUSE I live in WI. First of all archery seasons were started as a primitive weapon season. To me a crossbow has more right to be in that season than a compound. Wheels belong on cars not bows.

So much for agreeing. Disagreeing is short and simple - here in WI they (crossbows) used disability first, then 60 and over, and that 60 and over didn't last long - Now they're hunting with us.

On as side note I think the WI season should be structured as following. Nine day gun season as always before Thanksgiving. Then an archery season starting on Sept 15th and ending on 12/31 as about what we have now. Then another season which requires another license starting on 9/15 ending on 10/15 allowing the use of crossbows and compounds. WOW!!!!!!!!!! That would make my weapon look pretty good come rut time. AND YES I AM ONE SELFISH SOB. Plus very interested in promoting ARCHERY.

Bowmania
 

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Mammoth Hunter
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I agree that crossbows with recurve prods have more place in a bow hunting season than compound bows. Those are the real weapons destroying archery. And JParanee made a great point. Crossbows have been used by women and girls for hunting for a thousand years now because they allowed them to use a bow heavy enough to kill an animal without having to hold all that weight back. For many groups, a crossbow with a recurve prod is a very viable weapon. Maybe taking the telescopic sights off them would be more "sporting" but the weapon itself has a similar performance curve to a recurve bow.
 

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Joe, I agree with you, BUT I also disagree BECAUSE I live in WI. First of all archery seasons were started as a primitive weapon season. To me a crossbow has more right to be in that season than a compound. Wheels belong on cars not bows.

So much for agreeing. Disagreeing is short and simple - here in WI they (crossbows) used disability first, then 60 and over, and that 60 and over didn't last long - Now they're hunting with us.

On as side note I think the WI season should be structured as following. Nine day gun season as always before Thanksgiving. Then an archery season starting on Sept 15th and ending on 12/31 as about what we have now. Then another season which requires another license starting on 9/15 ending on 10/15 allowing the use of crossbows and compounds. WOW!!!!!!!!!! That would make my weapon look pretty good come rut time. AND YES I AM ONE SELFISH SOB. Plus very interested in promoting ARCHERY.

Bowmania
I like that idea

I am sick of other hunters also :)

For me I shoot my cam levers with fingers as well as a crossbow

Most guys I know that shoot compounds with sights shoot them as well or better than most crossbow shooters

Sure they are easier but so is a compound

I'm for not bring to judgmental and not accessing the merit of a hunter by his chosen tool but his hunting ethics

I hope that makes sense
 

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j-san = Jason
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I'm a Minnesotan and I really do not care how this turns out. I would rather see more ethical clean kills with a crossbow (wheeled or recurve) than more deer out in the woods with arrows sticking out of them.
 

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I have and still do occasionally hunt with a crossbow. I am not elderly, and I am not a youth. The crossbow is a highly lethal and accurate weapon. I personally have not shot it at a deer over 25 yds, although given a clean shooting lane a 40 yd shot could be accurately taken. Why the opposition? If it's because you will get some idiot taking a 100 yd shot at a deer with it, you have an equal or greater amount of idiots with traditional equipment taking lousy shots. In no way is a crossbow as effective as a gun, it is much slower and has no where near the kinetic energy of a bullet. Most crossbows are no faster, and many are slower than modern compound bows. If you allow longbows, recurves, compound bows in the woods, many of them in the hands of poorly trained shooters, why not a crossbow? It is likely that a novice shooter will be much more accurate with a crossbow. Not sure I comprehend the anti-crossbow rhetoric.
Some people fear losing privileges of their own by sharing with others.

Cross bows have been legal in NZ for a while now and they've effected nothing.

I have no problem with em'.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
John, I would think you would need to come up from down under and spend some bowhunting on public land here in the upper Mid-west (Mn.Wi.& Mi.). We are at a point of over saturation and the technology advancement has really increased. There is an Asian culture of refugees that effected the public land greatly w/o abiding to game laws over the yrs (the ones that live here know what I am referring to). The common sense is to put the crossbow in w/ the gunseason. I can qualify for a crossbow, but will walk away from bow hunting if it came to that. I have too much respect for the trad bow that brought us the hunt and the people behind it to cheapen the sport. Back in '87' a Wi. DNR Whitetail manager stated that if 'we' the bowhunters do not start to regulate our technology in bowhunting it will become a game management tool (gun hunting) and may start reducing the seasons just go into a generic season. I am sure that just the Wi. bowhunters (120,000+) all would go to NZ for several season it would be regulated in a hurry. Paul Brunner hunts NZ (lives there part of the yr) and lives in Montana the other part, if you bump into him ask him about public land hunting in the states. The apathy in our bowhunting has really decreased over the yrs and taking the easy method to reach the end result has increased. The crossbow has not affected bowhuntng as what the compound has over the yrs, make the release illegal and that would limit the field. There are somethings in life that technology should be limited and bowhunting is one. It is ironic how some get all uptight in IBO shoots over a stick and string, but when it comes down to fairchase it goes right out the window. I apologize for being long and this is the last, just getting to old to explain and tired of listening to the 'Big Tent' people that do not have to hunt the public land. Most of the fellow bowhunters that I have respected doing it the hard way have expired, maybe the easy way is longer living.
 

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The Mad Scientist
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The idea that archery seasons are low impact on game populations is no more, so therefore any further advancement in technology or increase in hunters will result in shorter seasons or less tags for everyone. The woods are saturated with bowhunters, now even some archery only tags out west are harder to draw than gun tags. That's the big issue, not what's ethical or not.

This was also the basis years ago that resulted in special archery only seasons. Now some are arguing the opposite. If you want easy there is the gun season, it's shorter because it has to be because, well, it's easy!
 

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I keep seeing "hunters" riding around in the back seat of their cars here in TN, with their wife driving. they have their crossbows loaded & ready for business. deer in my hunting areas will sometimes let a car pull up slow & stop w/out running. if I had my way, even the sale or possession of a crossbow would be illegal unless you had a board of doctors certifying your disability. I have never seen a big tent that I wanted into. 95% of ML rifles here in TN are now bolt-action rifle clones with scopes, frequently loaded with smokeless powder. how is that a primitive weapon? most of these lazy @#$%$#@# just won't take the time to learn. jmho
 
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