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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I agree that's not a very accurate way to measure, but it'll do. I thought the method was good enough for what I wanted to find out. even if it was $10 I wouldn't get it. actually even if it was given to me for free I wouldn't take it- I'd just borrow it maybe.

I just don't like buying/having something for limited use. I don't own much stuff, and I'm always trying to get rid of stuff to simplify my life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
just an update- I started working on tuning my arrows the past hour, and found that 125 gr tip had the arrows too stiff.

bare shaft 125 gr. had arrows off center by more than 12 inches. 175 gr was only slightly stiff and 200 gr was a bit weak, and I didn't have anything in between. I'm not ready to shorten the arrows for fine tuning until I get my broadhead and adapter setup.

but what a difference w/175gr! better sound and bette feel. it was getting dark so I can't say if it improved or worsened (at least for the time being with new setup) my accuracy, but I just felt like I had more control over the entire release process, and the whole release "experience" was just more pleasant. definitely much better penetration as well. a good thud, and at 20 yards not too much difference in trajectory compared to 125 gr.

I'm excited to continue fine tuning. FOC is at 21% w/175 gr, and I could discern a tiny drop in speed but insignificant- at least to my senses.
 

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Archers have been getting along without chronographs for about 60,000 years. Extend your arm and elbow as far as is comfortable. 26.5 is a short draw, 27.5 is better. Your arrows are a bit light but adequate for California Blacktail deer. Maybe not for big Mule deer. Make a strong shot. Good luck with it. - lbg
 

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You may be good to go with 175 grains. Maybe time to stop tuning and start working on form and accuracy. Find some anchor touch points and go with them. - lbg
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
You may be good to go with 175 grains. Maybe time to stop tuning and start working on form and accuracy. Find some anchor touch points and go with them. - lbg
most definitely. I've never shot a broadhead before so I just want to make sure that flies straight. I completely understand and agree with the essence of what you're saying- good reminder. thank you
 

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I'm still relatively pretty new to this- never shot any kind of bow until less than a year ago, and I've probably so far put in a little over 100 hours practicing.
It's entirely possible to spend 100 hours practicing wrongly... there's only so much you can learn yourself from youtube. Hope you can join a club that shoots some traditional recurve and get some hands on advice. Filming yourself (with a phone on a tripod or a friend) is immensely helpful too.
 

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GLAD you are seeing some improvements, good to tinker some with arrows to get 'er done.
Guessing from all I've read & seen that it might be possible for a well-tuned heavier arrow to be faster than a bad-flying marginally lighter arrow. ??
If you have them only slightly stiff or weak, you can gain a bit - get a better match - by messing with brace height up or down.
 

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I been shooting bows for over 20 years and have never even considered getting a chronograph. For most of us speed isn't that big of a deal. Accuracy, good arrow flight, a quiet bow, and good form gets you where you need to be unless you are planning on shooting 30yards or more which I wouldn't recommend unless it is 3d!!! Good luck brother.
 

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You would be surprised at the deer, bear and hogs Ive killed with 43# widow and 405 grain arrow. This year Im shooting same bow but 485 grains. Just something a little different.
 

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That sure doesn’t sound like a very good or reliable way of getting close to an accurate speed. You can get a chrony for around 100.00. I can’t see how any archer could not have one.
Tracker1, I been shooting and hunting with bow and arrow since 1971 and I’ve never owned a chronograph. LOL
 

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That sure doesn’t sound like a very good or reliable way of getting close to an accurate speed. You can get a chrony for around 100.00. I can’t see how any archer could not have one.
I feel the same way. I think it depends how into this you are. I find it very useful. When all my friends found out I had one you’d be surprised how interested they became.
 

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Wabisabsi, If you can tell the difference between 175 and 200 grains after one year of shooting, you'll be kicking Demmer's a** in a couple of years.

I'd say somethings amiss.

Bowmania
 

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If your setup is quite, that is better than blazing speed. Opening day was Saturday. I shot at and missed a doe. I know I was way nervous and short drew. The doe actually looked around and stepped over the arrow. Did not run off.

Was worried if I had enough speed. Went back today and shot my first archery deer! A small buck, 15 yards.

44 pound longbow at my draw length. 425'ish grain arrows, complete pass through.

My longbow runs around 150 to 155 fps with this setup. I have some hybrid longbows at 40 lbs that are faster.

I am convinced now that 40 is enough for white tail deer.
 

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If your setup is quite, that is better than blazing speed. Opening day was Saturday. I shot at and missed a doe. I know I was way nervous and short drew. The doe actually looked around and stepped over the arrow. Did not run off.

Was worried if I had enough speed. Went back today and shot my first archery deer! A small buck, 15 yards.

44 pound longbow at my draw length. 425'ish grain arrows, complete pass through.

My longbow runs around 150 to 155 fps with this setup. I have some hybrid longbows at 40 lbs that are faster.

I am convinced now that 40 is enough for white tail deer.
What is your DL? Congrats on your first archery deer, hopefully I'll get mine soon!
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Wabisabsi, If you can tell the difference between 175 and 200 grains after one year of shooting, you'll be kicking Demmer's a** in a couple of years.

I'd say somethings amiss.

Bowmania
who/what is demmer?

shooting 175 gr, bare shafts were all slightly to the left (as I was testing from 125, then 150, then 175, it was going from 12 inches left of center w/125, then ~6" left of center w/150, and with 175 it was couple of inches at most. the tail all dragged the same way. when I shot 200, they were all to the right of center, about 4-5 inches. whenever I shot bare shaft at X gr, I also shot the same X gr with fletching to compare, just to make sure it's not my own doing. with 200, the tail drag was the opposite of 125, 150, and 175 gr.

I could be doing it wrong. what do you think is amiss?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
It's entirely possible to spend 100 hours practicing wrongly... there's only so much you can learn yourself from youtube. Hope you can join a club that shoots some traditional recurve and get some hands on advice. Filming yourself (with a phone on a tripod or a friend) is immensely helpful too.
unfortunately there's no clubs around. but curious- what does an archery club do? is that different than archery range? I live in a rural area with closest town (mariposa, ca) 30 minutes away. and that town has just a little over 1000 people. where I am is even more sparse. I searched and asked but I don't know anyone that shoots a bow, let alone a trad bow. I'm sure glad this site exists.

the good thing about starting completely on my own (w/ YouTube) was that I was able to consider many different types of archery. I started with a horse bow and started shooting w/ thumb for the first couple of months. then I realized that I like the feel/experience of releasing with mediterranean. I read some olympic coaching manuals for biomechanics of proper form (for target shooting w/ modern recurve), then learned about barebow and 3 fingers under- so tried out that form for another month or so. then discovered instinctive shooting and read Howard Hill's book and watched John Schultz videos, and realized that what I wanted to do with archery was more about the experience that I seek- with less stuff, shooting by feel, continuous motion, shoot fast at a moving target/small target, and hopefully one day to get good at wing shooting- so that's the form I'm developing and practicing. I think if I had gone with a coach or someone from the beginning, I'd have adopted that person's way of shooting, instead of discovering what I wanted to do with archery and how I want to experience it.

but you're right about the possibility of practicing "wrong". I intentionally didn't film myself for this beginning period because I wanted to really go by feel and not be influenced even by my own eyes. but I think it's getting closer to that time of getting some good feedback. I'll definitely film myself soon and post here. hopefully people here can give me some pointers and tell me what's good and bad about how I'm shooting. I've adjusted so many variables up to this point, and know the basic effects of those variables and how multiple variables work or doesn't work together that I think I now have a better context to better understand advice/feedback re: form.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
GLAD you are seeing some improvements, good to tinker some with arrows to get 'er done.
Guessing from all I've read & seen that it might be possible for a well-tuned heavier arrow to be faster than a bad-flying marginally lighter arrow. ??
If you have them only slightly stiff or weak, you can gain a bit - get a better match - by messing with brace height up or down.
never thought about using brace height to address slightly stiff or weak. great advice- thanks!
 

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A great many archers have learnt as you have, with attention to Howard Hiill and John Schulz. John's style is a little too quick in my mind. Howard could and often did pause a bit to refine his aim; I make a point of it. Maybe not on movers and flyers..

I'm glad to hear you mention shooting by feel. I favor thinking less and feeling more, unless there is a problem that needs solving. There is no better practice than roving in forest and field with some blunt or judo points. The best targets are pine cones, dandelions, acorns and rotten stumps.

Feel the shot. Feel it. - lbg
 
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I have been shooting a trade bow for about 10 years. This year I picked up a book called shooting the stick bow by Anthony Camera. I highly recommend it. This book is a wealth of knowledge and a excellent reference. That and someone mentioned using your phone or camera to study your form.
 
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