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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm currently having some problems with my groups being left of POA, they are tight but to the left of target by about 3-4". I'm wondering if it is something in my setup or more of a form flaw. I'm shooting my Pinnacle II 50lbs 26"DL with Beman bowhunter's cut 28.5" 500 spine with 145grn tips. My centershot when looking behind the string seems to be sitting and arrow diameter or a shade more from the string. It seems that when I draw back and come to anchor if I try to get where i'm staring straight down the arrow shaft and the arrow shaft is in a pretty well straight line my groups go left. But if I draw back and aim with the tip of my arrow at the target and not worry about the shaft I can get the groups pretty well on my POA. I am new here so go easy on me, I know it is hard to tell when you can't see my form, but could someone just give me a few things to look for or tuning seguestions with the ILF setup for this. Thanks, Justin
 

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Left impact for a RH shoot means stiff....try a 175 or maybe a 200 grain point....I use to make the mistake of cutting full length arrows before I shot them...always shoot full length arrows before cutting.

Try the 175 points.


Dewayne
 

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You could also raise your brace a touch or make your side plate thinner. These will both move your impact over - Dewayne's solution is quicker though.


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Left impact for a RH shoot means stiff....try a 175 or maybe a 200 grain point....I use to make the mistake of cutting full length arrows before I shot them...always shoot full length arrows before cutting.

Try the 175 points.

Dewayne
I have some though that I have cut 30" and still get the same results. I'm wondering if it is something in my form or aiming. Should the shaft be perfectly in a straight line when looking down it at anchor, or will the tip be slightly to the left? I was also wondering if I need to adjust the centerline of the dovetails to get the centershot back a little closer to the riser?
 

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I'm assuming that you are right handed. It sounds like you might be peeking when you are using split vision vs point-of-aim. At the time of the release, if your head is not completely still and eye focused on your aiming method, then a right handed shooter will often shoot to the left. Also, since you mention that when you use point-of-aim you shoot down the middle but when you gap/split vision then you shoot left, it leads me to think that your eye might be following the flight of the arrow (peeking) causing you to shoot left. Get someone to video you while you are shooting and see if your head/eyes are flinching right after your release.

As far as tuning, your center shot sounds about right. You might try moving it in a bit, but no more than less than 3/4 of an arrow shaft (I like about 1.5-2 arrow diameters from the string). Better yet, check your brace height. You might try raising it about 1/4 and that will move your group about 3-4 inches to the right.

Another thing to verify is to see where your string blur is. Moving the string blur to the left or right of the arrow when at full draw will significantly change the left/right impact of your arrows.

Your arrows also sound stiff, which will open up your groups. Does a bareshaft group with your fletched arrows? Take a look at the Easton Tuning Guide for more info on bareshaft tuning.
 

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Try shutting your left eye a few times to make sure you are actually seeing what you think you are.

The arrow should be pointing left about 1 shaft width at the tip and when the bow is at brace...make sure your shelf material is not grooved by excessive feather wear causing the arrow to be ride the trough and be influenced by that.

I still believe your arrow is too stiff.


Dewayne
 

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If its not tuning the two most common reasons I shoot left are either bow arm/grip errors (either gripping/torquing or not pushing to the target = pulling the bow arm left on release) or inconsistent anchor -> error in lining up my aim - might be worth looking at if your arrows aren't a problem - my 2c fwiw - M.
 

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Victim of Geography
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You could wind in your limb bolts to weaken your arrows, the beauty of ILF!

Note: this comes from a novice so the other suggestions are probably more valid.
 

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I ran the combo through Stu's dynamic spine calculator and it doesn't look too far off. What limbs are you running on the bow? With performance limbs it should be a good match. With low end it could be a little stiff.

Mike
 

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Couple things....

I personally don't think that you're aiming with your left eye at all. A wrong eye "aiming" problem is going to cause you to be way left of the target, not just 3-4". I'm talking feet off at 20 yards. It is entirely possible that you are aiming "between" eyes if you're shooting both eyes open though. This could cause a left shot (for a right handed shooter).

My personal thought is one of two things....(Based upon RH shooter)

1. You are consistently "aiming" with your string blur too far right. This will become amplified the further away from the target that you get, causing you to shoot even further to the left.

2. You need to move your center shot slightly right. Every shooter is different. But, for me personally, my bow is setup at exact center shot. If I have my bow set up with the arrow shaft to the left like many state that it should be done, my grouping is consistently left of POA.

I would shoot for a while paying close attention to number one first. Just some thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
mwestvang- I think your right I don't think that my spine is that far off, my actual peak weight at 26"DL may be 46-47lbs instead of 50 since that is rated at 28"DL. The limbs I have are the standard black max wood core limbs 50lbs to make a 60" bow with the pinnacle II riser.

FieldnFeathers-Could you or someone else elaborate a little more on the string blur thing? I feel this may be my problem since when I get farther away from the target my groups get farther to the left.

I still think this is mostly a form issue as I did go to a 3D shoot this past saturday and ended up winning shooting a 257 out of 30targets. It was just a 20yrd max class, but I did have 4-5 12's and didn't miss a target, so I was very pleased with that. And today I did some shooting and at times I can put it right where I aim, then if I start really trying to aim the shaft down the center at the target, which feels like i'm pulling the string closer to my face I end up with a left of target group. Hopefully I can get my wife to video my form and post the results to help out with the visual. Also something that I noticed is when I draw back I feel like I have to come around my face to get to my anchor, which is the middle finger in the corner of my mouth. I saw this sort of technique in a video in which it was referred to a clock like draw, in which the arrow is not pointing exactly straight, but when the anchor point is reached it is aiming at the target. Is this correct or is this bad info? Thanks for the replies, hopefully I can get it figured out, and I have been trying some of the advice given.
 

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Bender, string blur is simply how you see the string and where it is located when you are at anchor. I pay close attention to the location of my string blur when aiming. For me personally, it's the biggest thing that can cause right or left mistakes.

As an example....Let's say at anchor, your string blur lines up with the inside of your riser, point on, and you hit perfect center bull. On the next shot, if you lined up the string blur with the outside of your riser, point on and shot...you would shoot left.

Centershot can make a difference with the location of string blur as well. As an example, my Hoyt Excel rig is perfect center shot and my string blur is lined up between the right side of my arrow and the inside of the riser to get me on the x. My Bear Kodiak Hunter is not even close to perfect center shot. With the Bear, my string blur needs to line up with the outside of the riser to be center bull. If I lined up the Bear like my Hoyt I would shoot to the right.

I hope that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bender, string blur is simply how you see the string and where it is located when you are at anchor. I pay close attention to the location of my string blur when aiming. For me personally, it's the biggest thing that can cause right or left mistakes.

As an example....Let's say at anchor, your string blur lines up with the inside of your riser, point on, and you hit perfect center bull. On the next shot, if you lined up the string blur with the outside of your riser, point on and shot...you would shoot left.

Centershot can make a difference with the location of string blur as well. As an example, my Hoyt Excel rig is perfect center shot and my string blur is lined up between the right side of my arrow and the inside of the riser to get me on the x. My Bear Kodiak Hunter is not even close to perfect center shot. With the Bear, my string blur needs to line up with the outside of the riser to be center bull. If I lined up the Bear like my Hoyt I would shoot to the right.

I hope that makes sense.
Yeah that helps out a lot, I will definitley pay attention to that tomorrow and see where I feel it needs to be. When I look at the arrow chart on 3Rivers website they seem to say that a 500 spine should work for even a 28" arrow out of a bow setup like mine, not sure how accurate their chart is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Little update, i've been doing some practicing and paying more attention to some of my form details and comparing to some of the form info on here. I found that I think I wasn't getting my elbow inline with the arrow and instead was leaving it hanging out. Today I noticed that when I draw if I try to pull my elbow behind my head my groups are straighter and I have the occasional right of POA shots as opposed to always getting left of POA shots. I have been trying to concentrate on my drawing technique more then anything else since that seems to be where I fall apart first. Hopefully I can get a good form with my draw so I can start moving on to aiming and really focus on how i'm aiming. Thanks again for the advice guys it has really helped even though I haven't posted any form pics and such, hopefully I can get around to doing that.
 

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Little update, i've been doing some practicing and paying more attention to some of my form details and comparing to some of the form info on here. I found that I think I wasn't getting my elbow inline with the arrow and instead was leaving it hanging out. Today I noticed that when I draw if I try to pull my elbow behind my head my groups are straighter and I have the occasional right of POA shots as opposed to always getting left of POA shots. I have been trying to concentrate on my drawing technique more then anything else since that seems to be where I fall apart first. Hopefully I can get a good form with my draw so I can start moving on to aiming and really focus on how i'm aiming. Thanks again for the advice guys it has really helped even though I haven't posted any form pics and such, hopefully I can get around to doing that.
This may be form or it may be the same problem I see.

Same As you: if I draw back and look straight down the arrow shaft and shoot that shot it is left at targets over 20yards (can't focus on tip and target over 20 yards) Now if I draw back look down the arrow and then peek out slightly then back in it's straight down the middle ( arrow fussy and target clear).
I have been trying to not look straight down the arrow but draw it slightly right of POA and slowly bring the tip in on POA. Very hard at the longer distances. I almost always jump on the shot as soon as I see the spot.

I think its called Ocular Dominance and can affect your Parallax.
Dan
 

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Another possibility.... as if you didn't have enough: When I start having shots hitting left or right of the intended target it's almost always because I failed to continue pulling through the shot. For me the remedy is always the same: go to the blank bale, close my eyes, and work on expansion and release....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Another possibility.... as if you didn't have enough: When I start having shots hitting left or right of the intended target it's almost always because I failed to continue pulling through the shot. For me the remedy is always the same: go to the blank bale, close my eyes, and work on expansion and release....
I think this is part of my problem and is why I need to get my elbow inline with the arrow and target so I can get a good release as well. I also think i'm having the same problem that DDD describes, i'm just trying to concentrate on one thing at a time though. So many things and so little time, lol.
 
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