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this excerpt is from fox news. what jumped out at me was the bit about the armed guy with the c.c. permit who decided to "confront" the cop killers after the guy shot a round into the air inside the walmart. thats the problem with someone being armed legally but having no experience in actually firing his/her weapon with effect at another person. most people who do this, react, will end up dead or wounded. the only way to confront is to actually fire and put the threat down. something that is hard for a civilian to actually do.
a school near my home in the u.s. has now put all administration personnel through a 30 day self defense course and all of them will now be carrying a weapon at school. i am afraid of collateral damage from inexperienced firing if they are ever put in peril.
even experienced leo's have a poor hit rate while under threat.

Police were called to the Cici’s Pizza restaurant, about five miles northeast of the Las Vegas Strip, at 11:22 a.m. local time Sunday, shortly after the shooting spree began.

According to McMahill, Miller first entered the restaurant and walked around briefly before heading back out to the parking lot to meet his wife.

The pair then went back into Cici’s Pizza and walked towards the booth where Soldo and Beck were eating.

Jerad Miller pulled out a handgun and put it up to the back of Soldo’s head and blasted him once, killing Soldo instantly, and then shot Beck in the neck, McMahill said.

Beck reacted to the gunfire and was shot multiple times by Amanda Miller, who pulled a handgun out of her purse, McMahill added.

Sheriff Doug Gillespie said Beck was able to fire back at the suspects. Both officers were later pronounced dead at University Medical Center.

The duo then left the restaurant and walked over to a nearby Walmart, where Jerad Miller fired a shot into the air and told people to get out, shouting that it was “a revolution,” McMahill said.

Bystander Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, who was carrying a concealed weapon inside the store, spotted Jerad Miller and told a friend he would confront him, according to authorities. As he neared Jerad, he was shot in the ribs by Amanda and later died, McMahill said.

Gillespie called the death “completely senseless.”

The couple then exchanged gunfire with officers in the back of the store and killed themselves in an apparent suicide pact, Las Vegas Police spokesman Larry Hadfield said.

McMahill said Amanda fired several rounds into Jerad then took her own life with a single shot to the head.
 

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Concealed carry won't stop the crazies. I too am afraid of untrained gun carriers. Shooting a target in a range is a lot easier than shooting in the "Heat of the moment." You can't train for that. I am all for c.c. but I don't want to carry myself. Maybe in the deer woods. I would like to have a gangbanger think that I may be carrying. I can still hit an assailant with my cane and oxygen concentrator. It's HEAVY!
 

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but Dave if the bad guys knew more people had guns they would be less likely to even use guns and would probably use cars or bombs,,,lol

Nonetheless,,the Goobers that know nothing and think magazines are sold with bullets in them and when they run out are no longer re=usable,,will continue to be Monkeys,,:p

Yes they are cowards and would poison the water too if they could,,
 

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Concealed carry won't stop the crazies. I too am afraid of untrained gun carriers. Shooting a target in a range is a lot easier than shooting in the "Heat of the moment." You can't train for that. I am all for c.c. but I don't want to carry myself. Maybe in the deer woods. I would like to have a gangbanger think that I may be carrying. I can still hit an assailant with my cane and oxygen concentrator. It's HEAVY!
With training,,it is just draw, sight alignment, sight picture, press! Dwon they go or until they go down you keep pressing,,:cheers:

I wish they could beam me to these situations with a benelli super 90 and a couple of good 1911'sand a vest! Would send them to Allah and be on time for spaghetti and garlic bread and cold tea,,lala laaaa:p
 

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"this excerpt is from fox news. what jumped out at me was the bit about the armed guy with the c.c. permit who decided to "confront" the cop killers after the guy shot a round into the air inside the walmart. thats the problem with someone being armed legally but having no experience in actually firing his/her weapon with effect at another person. most people who do this, react, will end up dead or wounded. the only way to confront is to actually fire and put the threat down. something that is hard for a civilian to actually do."

ah come on Larry,,should we be sheep and wait on the Kling ons to show up with battle latels? Bahaaahaa,,,not! lol

There a good many so called "Civilians" that train and keep there pistol clean unlike a lot of fat Cops that show up out of breath,,come on man,,really? You gonna go that route?

Not every Civilian with a CCW is a fool and most have been trained etc.
 

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In Arizona, Anyone can carry conceiled, no permit needed... This small retirement town I live in, Green Valley, has pistol packing grandmothers, little old men with pistols stuffed in their car door pockets... Does that make me feel safer??? hehehe, Not really, but if they feel safer, Good for them...
I rarely ghost carry, I prefer to have my arms seen... In the Mt's I carry an AR-15 shorty, because of the crimnials that are invading our Border being armed with AK's...

Military trained and willing to defend myself...
 

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A short story from last year while pre-bow season scouting/Mt. Lion hunting...

After climbing to a little peak to overwatch a small saddle and before I hit the elec. caller, I saw a nice Coues buck run through the saddle, stop and look at his back trail. He we go I thought, the buck is running from a MT. Lion and if the Lion follows I'm going to have a clear 150yard shot...
I caught movement, it was a man with an AK type rifle followed by 7 others carrying square shaped bundles on their backs. They stopped to water-up under some oaks. I hit speed dial on my cellphone, the first number on my phone is to BP, and contacted the Border-Patrol hot-line. GPS numbers were given, I stayed on the line to talk the Agents in.
Below me, about 1/2mile, was a popular picnic area where the Agents parked, and the probable pick-up spot for the smugglers. As the Agents made their move up-slope, I could hear the helo coming, and so could the smugglers. They started to scatter, but 7 were caught...Along with 400lbs of pot, cell phones, two pistols and the AK...
Black Hawks are amazing viewed from above as they worked the area, I took pics, but the area is identifiable so I wont be shareing them...

Was I safer being armed??? damm straight... Would I have defended my-self??? Hell Yes...
(I didnt tell my GF about this, she worries to much as it is when I wander around the Mt's anyway, but I do give a map block location of where I'm going to be and my route in... In case I fail to return on time)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yeah, i'll go there. heres why---
Distances In Which NYPD Officers Were Involved In Shooting Incidents
1994-2000
0-2 Yards
1188
69%
3-7 Yards
332
19%
8-15 Yards
109
6%
16-25 Yards
41
2%
25+ Yards
24
1%
Unknown
31
2%
TOTALS*
1719
99%
*Percentages rounded
1994-2000
NYPD Hit Ratios By Distance
Gunfights, Other Shootings vs. Perpetrator, and Against Dogs
DISTANCE (Yards)
0-2
3-7
8-15
16-25
25+
Unknown
HIT RATIO
38%
17%
9%
8%
4%
2%
"Training Implications
The majority of state training councils (and the individual agencies governed by them) continue to mandate “qualifying” officers with handguns out to 25 yards. The implication has always been that officers were “qualified” at 25 yards, even though a substantial number of officers miss most of their shots at this distance on the firing range. In fact, many marginal shooters drop all of their rounds at 25 yards, yet still “qualify” at that distance. Street marksmanship seems to reflect and magnify the folly of this anachronism."

since trained leo's in new york have only about 38% hit ratio at 0-2 yards as reported by their own system, i do not expect many 30 day wonders to do better in a deadly confrontation. don't have anything against open or concealed carry at all, but i am realistic about how many people have actually had to fire their weapon at another human being.
 
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