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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've about had it with some people's mentality that my low-poundage 40-50 lb. hunting bows are only good for targets and small game. IMO, it's an insulting approach towards those that don't prefer to shoot heavy bows. What is it about some of the trad bowhunters these days? Is it just me, or does it seem like there's this huffy puffy thing going on like "my bow is bigger and badder than yours"? The day a heavy bow guy can kill a deer that I can't (based on bow poundage).... I will then, and only then.... relinquish my fight against the ignorance of it all.
 

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It's because we're americans. Nobody on the face of this earth has any business with a 5,000 square foot house, but we have millions of them. Same thing goes for our cars, and pretty much anything relating to recreational activities. We always want the biggest, the best, and the most expensive to try and elevate ourselves above our peers. Some people feel that having more draw weight makes them more of a man, just as you said, and that's their way of making them feel better about themselves. This, along with many other things, are why I don't watch the news anymore. It tends to make me feel ashamed of being an american, or even a human being at times. By the way, it probably isn't going to change.
 

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Piney - I knew this exact question (well kinda) was going to come up some day, I knew that I would open mhy big mouth and say.....well I did a test one time :) where I took a 67# 60" recurve and a heavy ash arrow with a big wide blade. It penetrated a foam target exactly 11&1/2". Now I took a hot 44# bow and a WW 3blade BH oh a light shaft and shot the same target. it penetrated 11&1/2" the same amount. So when someone tells you it take a 67# recurve to kill a big deer they just might be right :)..........that does not mean a light draw (44#) bow can't do it.....but i think it does take a heavy draw bow to shot a heavy shaft wide blade BH and kill the same big game animal.

Grabbing my flake jacket and helment and going to bed :)

rusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oh, I see... said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.

It's not so much the heavy bow, but rather the HEAVY ARROW!

:lol:
 

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PS - keep ever in mind it is not the bow the kills the animal, never ever (well that I know of. I guess it could have happend at sometime). It is the arrow and broad head the does the real work. :2cents:

rusty
 

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I expect this sort of thing has been around as long as mankind has. A mighty man seeks to show superiority. An ignorant man can't really deliver a proper insult; he can only show himself to be an ignoramus.

The remedy for both is simple: just keep calm and quiet--- and outshoot them. Severely if you can. And then be gracious about your superiority.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
rusty craine said:
.... It is the arrow and broad head the does the real work.
Sometimes I begin wonder (after reading all the heavy bow/arrow threads), if it takes a Sherlock Holmes of trad archery to figure that one out.
 

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LOL if I ever had to kill a big bear with a "bow" (no arrow), I would want a 100# draw 70" HH big five. So the next time Ya hear it takes a heavy draw bow to kill big game.......ya can say with out a doubt they are right. Ya might point out it would be a bit safer and easier if they used an arrow instead.

rusty
 

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I was just thinking about every bowhunting video/show I've ever seen(which hasn't been that many). I can't remember ever seeing someone get a pass through on a deer/elk/moose/bear. I specifically remember a few times seeing someone shooting a high tech compound with a (presumably) lightweight arrow and only getting approx. 6" of penetration. I'd say this has more to do with broadhead choice than anything.

Anyway, everyone knows compounds are more efficient that recurves and longbows, so maybe people think that since they see 60-70 lb. compounds have trouble getting much penetration, that a recurve/longbow would have even more trouble. The problem with that is that we all know a good cut on contact broadhead has no trouble zipping through a deer, even with our measly 40-50 lb. recurves/longbows.
 

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rusty craine said:
where I took a 67# 60" recurve and a heavy ash arrow with a big wide blade. It penetrated a foam target exactly 11&1/2". Now I took a hot 44# bow and a WW 3blade BH oh a light shaft and shot the same target. it penetrated 11&1/2" the same amount.
rusty
Errr.....what if you shoot a light arrow with the 67# bow?

I've done a bit of hunting with what we'd define as a medium bow and medium arrows I guess (53# and 530 gr). I use 125 gr Stinger 2 bladers.

With this set-up I've had clean pass throughs (within reason ie not hitting shoulder bone) from 10 yds through to 25 yds (more than 8 times in the last year). Somewhere after 25 yds things start slowing down and at 32 yds I had half the arrow sticking out either side (still a kill). I suspect 40 yds will see my set-up run out of steam and not get a clean kill. Note that I'm shooting 2016s - I suspect a switch to carbon will give me slighty better penetration due to smaller diameter.

Greg
 

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rusty craine said:
Well Greg I'd like to try that out of curiosity. the bowery says it takes at 10 gpp not to void the warranty :)

rusty
You have 14 other back-up bows if that one decides to keel over :jk:

Not worth risking the warranty I'd say to shoot below 10 gpp.

Cheers,

Greg
 

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Piney,

What puzzles me about these clearly macho types is that they'll readily admit to being unable to draw their 60# bows more than once every three minutes and for an hour in total.

Equalling 20 shots. Call that practice?

Also: I notice that none of the acknowledged crack archers advocate very heavy bows.

As I said in the current thread about draw weight, I think there are many variables... and some don't even have much to do with speed or penetration. A bow that gives you the right sense of stability is a bow you can shoot accurately. To an extent, therefore, the weight is for your own body, rather than calculated to produce a physical result arrow-wise. What you make of it in terms of speed and/or arrow weight is another issue. You would be stupid not to reap any advantages your preferred draw weight offers in any given context. But that does not make those advantages as decisive as some would have us think. It seems obvious to me that manageability of a bow comes first and that further configuration depends upon it... your optimum draw weight is your capital, so to speak, which you then invest as prudently as possible.

Now, wouldn't it be cool to say that "my body needs 70#" to feel comfortable with a bow? ;)

Best,

Martin
 

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Piney, Just about everybody's got an opinion and i guess they're entitled to it..... Mine is, if you're within the boundries of the law, these opinions should be of no interest to you... Good Hunting with what ever you choose to hunt with!

Tom
 

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my last 2 bowkills with my 45# montana longbow and B52 bh on 2016's were all complete pass thrus on wild pigs..75# and 110#.....granted they're not big but that's all we have to hunt here so.....( we have deer too but they're kinda spooked where i hunt so haven't even seen one lately...also kinda small too at about 120# tops)....ALL my hunting recurves and longbows are a maximum of 45#...
 

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Both ignorant and insulting. Believing it is ignorance. The ignorance becomes an insult when the mouths start to run. But..... consider the source. An insult from an ignorant person is a small caliber annoyance, indeed.
 

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A lot of them simply have no clue as what it really takes to kill something.They are still in that "knock them down" line of thinking instead of the "surgurcal strike" aproach. The young do not always listen. ;) I don't let it bother me anymore.I can just show them pictures or open the door on the freezer to make my point.:2cents:
 

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I think this discussion has been around for as long as there have been archers and will probably last until we come up with an automatic drawing bow and it is irrelevant. Horace Ford writes about overbowing as one of the leading causes of poor accuracy back in the 1850s. But I hope it continues, it is almost as fun to listen to as the instinctive versus aiming discussions. First the "clearly Macho" types talk about how good heavy bows are and how they can't shoot long but the heavy pull gives them a great release. Then the not so heavy types start in on being able to shoot all day and what a rock steady sight picture they get and they can still kill game. For myself I seldom try to justify my draw weight. I only worry about my own draw weight and how it effects my shooting. I don't really care whether someone thinks I am drawing a girlie bow (Clearly Macho) or just showing off (clearly Macho) wannabes. Like most arguments we shout at each other from the poles when the truth is probably closer to the equater.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Tom, yes they're entitled to their opinions however errant they might be. The reason it has interest to me isn't so much about the personal insulting level, but moreso that those that are somewhat new to trad bowhunting will have a tendency to believe that BS and guess what.... they START their trad journey down the road of being overbowed, rather than learning about the importance of bow control and the finesse of shot placement. To me, flapping of one's gums about heavy bows and heavy arrows is about like buying hail insurance when living in southern California.
 
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