[Remote]

My New Year's project is to (re-)attempt following Justin Ma and Blake Cole's Beyond Strength process to develop the ability shoot a warbow, while I still have the body to do it. Both those guys shoot (not just pull) in the 100lb+ category. Justin is especially strong, shooting 130lb with seeming ease. My interest is not for hunting or anything else other than the pure physical and mental challenge of it.

Justin and Blake recommend walking up 5lbs in weight from your baseline bow to a goal bow each time (just as we lower-weight archers do). My current goal bow is a 60lb bow which I can shoot reasonably well for 8 arrows with a 6-8 second anchor before needing a rest. Once I can do so for 10-15 arrows, I have met their criterion for a new goal bow.

I have an ILF riser and was thinking this might be a cheaper alternative to walking up the increments over 60lbs, at least for a while, rather than having to buy whole new bows.

Are there any (crazy and/or lesser-known) ILF limb manufacturers that do, say, up to 80lbs. I cannot seem to find any.

 

[Coodster]

I used to shoot hoyt limbs because they make their limbs up to 50#, put them on a 17” riser and your at 58# then turn the tiller bolts all in and you’ll get 60#
then if you draw over 28 you’ll get a bit more.
not sure if they made heavier in the past tho.
Not much help lol.

Chad

 

[Hank D Thoreau]

Make sure your riser is rated for the high weight. Some of the cast risers have fairly low limits.


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[Remote]

A

Make sure your riser is rated for the high weight. Some of the cast risers have fairly low limits.


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Very good tip. Thanks.

 

[Draven O]

W&W Black Wolf limbs are up to #60. I have the #50 and #60 longs and as usual the limbs are rated bolt out - I get #64 all in on Black Wolf riser. On my 19” Satori are #62 all in. Check Jake Kaminski strength exercises and download Tabata Timer app.

PS The Border HEX 6.5 I have on the VPA are #[email protected]” on 25” riser. On VPA are #65 all in but I set them at #62. ILF limbs in high poundage are not cheap. Buy rubber bands and add them to the current bow to increase poundage - it is way cheaper.

 

[Tracker1]

Maybe it’s my age talking but it just don’t seem the fun is worth the risk a rotator cuff injury that can haunt you the rest of your life.

 

[Draven O]

He needs two things: to know his limit and to have an understanding of the technical aspect of the shot. Justin Ma is strong because his technique allows him to, not the other way around.

 

[DJL]

hi remote
couple of things. jim belcher will build you a heavy set of ilf. i have a set of 90 # longs i practice with.the other thought i have 2 chastain bows one is 86 @ 28'' the other [email protected] 28. both in good shape . i 'm going to put them on the leather wall for sale. you can have either one for 195.00. that will give you a whole bow for half the price
dave in new mexico

 

[Remote]

W&W Black Wolf limbs are up to #60. I have the #50 and #60 longs and as usual the limbs are rated bolt out - I get #64 all in on Black Wolf riser. On my 19” Satori are #62 all in. Check Jake Kaminski strength exercises and download Tabata Timer app.

PS The Border HEX 6.5 I have on the VPA are #[email protected]” on 25” riser. On VPA are #65 all in but I set them at #62. ILF limbs in high poundage are not cheap. Buy rubber bands and add them to the current bow to increase poundage - it is way cheaper.

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Great setups. The VPA is also on my list for this year. Pretty inspiring to see you can gain 10lbs on that 13" riser with the Borders. This may be a good starting point, seeing what I can gain with bolt-in on a cheap 15" riser and inexpensive 60lb limbs (my current ILF riser is 17"), later moving up to the VPA on same limbs to see if I can gain more weight that way.

I did see the Kaminski videos, cheers. They are similar to that of NuSensei (a coach on YouTube), but for me I prefer to be actually shooting. That tends to get me training daily rain or shine. This is how I went up my last 10lb in weight. Maybe I can do both to speed up the climb. I hadn't thought of the elastic bands to add faux weight to the bow. Good idea.

As for knowing one's limits. This is probably the bigger challenge here, as I tend to have the 'push through the pain' approach that I got from endurance sports, something that seems to quickly lead to injury in traditional archery, my favourite sport.

 

[Draven O]

From 17” Black Wolf to 13” VPA the gain was #0.7 for Borders. The exercises are meant to build endurance and they don’t dismiss the actual shooting.

 

[Camacho]

Hoyt Satori limbs come up to 65#, and are measured on a 21” riser. So I assume they would be even higher on a 17” or 13” riser.

My 55# (marked) satori limbs pull 57# on my 17” at my draw length of 27”, for reference.

 

[Vaquero 45]

Besides the Black Wolf ilf limbs already mentioned , one can order the W & W Black Elk limbs @ 65 lbs . 💪

 

[SagarG]

I have an ILF riser and was thinking this might be a cheaper alternative to walking up the increments over 60lbs, at least for a while, rather than having to buy whole new bows.

It won't be cheaper. If simply building strength your most economical options are AF Archery and Alibow fiberglass bows.
By all means get some 60 or 65lb ILF limbs, if that's what you ultimately want to shoot, but you're going to be spending a lot of money on high draw weight ilf limbs if that's the type of equipment you want to train up with.

Beyond strength is kind of just that, beyond strength. Going up in draw weight is more a challenge in form than muscle growth. Shooting with a modern western anchor makes this a little hard. There is a good reason that war archers tend to "over"draw. I can easily go 15# heavier with an asiatic draw than my mediterranean draw. Your experience may vary, but keep in mind Justin and Blake are accessing some extra muscles with their past ear draws.

You can still do it with face anchor Mediterranean though. Howard Hill was shooting what, 90#? Be careful and watch for shoulder issues.

 

[Remote]

It won't be cheaper. If simply building strength your most economical options are AF Archery and Alibow fiberglass bows.
By all means get some 60 or 65lb ILF limbs, if that's what you ultimately want to shoot, but you're going to be spending a lot of money on high draw weight ilf limbs if that's the type of equipment you want to train up with.

Beyond strength is kind of just that, beyond strength. Going up in draw weight is more a challenge in form than muscle growth. Shooting with a modern western anchor makes this a little hard. There is a good reason that war archers tend to "over"draw. I can easily go 15# heavier with an asiatic draw than my mediterranean draw. Your experience may vary, but keep in mind Justin and Blake are accessing some extra muscles with their past ear draws.

You can still do it with face anchor Mediterranean though. Howard Hill was shooting what, 90#? Be careful and watch for shoulder issues.

Cheers. I'm pretty cozy at 68lb now and about to go to 75lb. Just for the heck of it. Since I wrote the above post though I'm planning to stop at 80lb. Once I can shoot that, "warbow" is off the bucket list. Alibow Heavy H1 is what I settled on for that next jump.

 

[SagarG]

Cheers. I'm pretty cozy at 68lb now and about to go to 75lb. Just for the heck of it. Since I wrote the above post though I'm planning to stop at 80lb. Once I can shoot that, "warbow" is off the bucket list. Alibow Heavy H1 is what I settled on for that next jump.

Ha, should have checked the dates on original post.

 

[GilV]

Check Border. I have a set of Border Hex 6 longs that are 59# on a 21" @ 30.5" with limb bolts half way. I sold the 21" and will use them on a 19". I switched to 3 under and shortened my draw to 29.75", so I will re-weigh them.

I used this exercise to get up to 81# longbows. I just used it again after a layoff and shoulder injury to get up to the 59# limbs.

FORMASTER EXERCISES

 

[GilV]

If you want to shoot ILF heavy you will probably need a Border or Das riser.

You may be better off looking for cheap heavier longbows. As you move up in weight buy heavier and then sell the lighter. Here is an ad I put out for two of my exercise bows. You can't get much cheaper than that.

Any heavy bow shooters out there?

I am downsizing big time. I have two heavy American style longbows. I used to use these bows as workout bows. I can guarantee I will never be able to workout or shoot them again. One is a Martin ML-10 longbow 68” 65#@28. The other is a unknown maker to me but looks like a quality longbow. It...

www.tradtalk.com

PS - Just working out using the Rigid Formaster exercise in the previous post, with the 65# bow I was able to comfortably shoot a 81# Hill Wesley Special.

 

[Tracker1]

Is the risks to the shoulders and elbows involved from the slow climb in poundages over time or an actual instant tear in the rotator cuff worth it? Over the years seeing posts of archers dealing with permanent injuries from shooting heavy bows and some never shooting a bow again had me reducing weight years ago. I know some that shoot mighty heavy bows, but that is just a huge risk to take for no practical reason.

 

[Draven O]

Is the risks to the shoulders and elbows involved from the slow climb in poundages over time or an actual instant tear in the rotator cuff worth it?

Yes. Chinese war archery or English war archery wouldn't be possible to explore if that argument was driving the activity.

Over the years seeing posts of archers dealing with permanent injuries from shooting heavy bows and some never shooting a bow again had me reducing weight years ago. I know some that shoot mighty heavy bows, but that is just a huge risk to take for no practical reason.

The number of people who already had life changing injuries BEFORE or OUTSIDE archery is way more than people who got injured because of the draw weight.
Yes, there are a lot of Archery related injuries, but all of them are form related. I think I read somewhere that there are a lot of accidents due to heavy mass of riser than actual draw weight in JOAD. Loading your bow hand is worst than snap shooting a heavy weight.

 

[Bowhunter57]

Why? Why? Why? Just because a person is capable, doesn't mean they should. I started lowering bow draw weight 30+ years ago, to avoid any surgery and/or loss of being able to enjoy archery. 🚫 I've witnessed it, first hand and have learned from others' mistakes.

A guy in my area had a very muscular build from his interest in weight lifting and his job was in construction too. He insisted on shooting a Howard Hill Big 5 longbow at 100#. He didn't shoot it very accurately and he didn't shoot it for very long, before his shoulders gave out.
I was thinking of all the years he wasted, when he could've been shooting a 50# or 55# recurve with extreme accuracy and with ease, due to his strength. Of course, this same guy is shooting a 40# longbow now, after a couple of surgeries and lots of rehab.