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Pete
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I asked in Sylvans reply to a thread weather there was an ilf hunting riser before Das.that thread was locked, being on a different time zone left me out of it. I should have asked was there a "dedicated" ilf hunting riser before Das ! Anybody know ?production not Warf or home brew.
 

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Pete, you could buy a Bernardini Cobra (21"). I don't remember when it came out.

DAS was the 1st in 17" but you had to convert to the Das connection which is no problem
 

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Das is just a 3/8's slot to align the bushing with an oblong hole for the cap bolt to move fore and aft.
 

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There were a few Hoyt Gold Medalist T/D4 23" risers with extra short limbs. Not really dedicated to hunting, except they were camo. It might have been a special order item but there are a few around.
 

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I thought I answered your question Pete. I was very serious when I said that pretty much from the day Hoyt invented ILF, people were using production ILF bows for hunting. People weren't nearly as hung up (if at all) on what was considered a "hunting" bow, or a "traditional" bow back then.

Simply put, if it was a bow, and you hunted with it, it was a hunting bow.

The Hoyt Gold Medalist was surely the first ILF bow used for hunting in the mid eighties. There was a camo version of the Hoyt Radian Talon in mid nineties.

Here is a picture of one I found.
 

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I hunted with a Radian on and off for a few years , would have been mid 90's I think?
Man I loved that bow ... And thought it was the ducks nuts !
I'd often have 3 pins on it and maybe a stab ... Oft times barebow ...
Great bow for me...... Still the only camo bow I have owned I think !
 

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Hoyt actually "dedicated" limbs, not risers for hunting bows. They offered extra shorts for the Talon and later the Desperado (Avalon) hunting bows. Darn guy knew how to make a buck. :^)
 

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I owned a Hoyt Gold Medalist, Factory camo , extra short limbs...I bought it sometime late '92, or early 93, used, from the guy that sold it new, who was a Hoyt dealer...he also had several Hoyt TD-4+ risers, with Carbon Plus foam limbs,(shorts) that were Factory film dipped in the old grey Treebark camo...Those bows were smoking fast for then, and I never could talk that fella out of one of those Treebark camo rigs..Lets not forget that Black Widow had at least two different models of short, Hunting length metal risers bows, the H.S., and another one I cant remember..I had one of those, also...Mine was all black, something around 54"-56" long, and had a built in Factory over-draw...Quinn was building bows for Himself, and Shakespeare Archery (The TQ Takedown) back in the 90's, and even Martin had a metal riser hunting takedown, based off the old Lynx riser...PSE had the beefy metal riser bows, such as the one that Steve Long just had for sale, and Harold Groves contracted Proline Archery to sell him risers to bolt his excellent limbs onto...Short metal riser hunting bows are not new, for sure, and I'm sure that I can think of others given time....Jim
 

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JIM & JIM,
keep those memories churning, this is a great read, and some of this thread just answered a question I asked 2 people today, did Hoyt ever make "extra short" limbs.
THANKS!
 

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Harpman, you said "he also had several Hoyt TD-4+ risers,"
right after you were talking about some Gold Medalist risers.
I have read a GM is a TD4 in the past, I think.
'Splain what a td-4+ is?
Thanks in advance.
 

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I hunted a 25" Gold Medalist for 4 or 5 years. The trolley that carried the limb butt was VERY hard to quieten down. I finally used 1/4" latex tubing in and a round the trolley and limb butt. Then I pushed foam bits into the pocket to finish. I had home built vibration absorbers in the limb pocket bosses.

I had a tom stroll in one spring 40 yards out. I had been shooting a lot of field. 40 yards was not a problem. Shooting 48# carbon plus and 2016. I was point on 40 yards. Release was smooth as silk, arrow was heading right to the spot. Turkey ducked the arrow..... at the last second. Did not even scare him off. OK duck the next one sucker. He did and the next one too. Then he strolled on down the rode.

Lessened learned. At distance a tom can see better than you can shoot. Get close. :).

I killed a number of does with the rig. I would to this day never call a 25" gold medalist a hunting bow. Still got the riser and limbs.
 

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DAS still seems like the first short ILF ""type" Hunting bow built for that reason alone and not an adaptation of an existing target bow model.
I know there were some other short risers and limb combinations around, but none as short as the DAS, none making available such a huge range of limbs to be used, none designed purely as a hunting bow from day one.
I doubt there's a -17" metal ILF hunting riser on the market today that doesn't owe something to the DAS riser.
I had a DAS Hunter for a while and when I was researching different manufacturers looking for an alloy hunting riser I discovered Alternative archery an found the Bernardini 21" Corbra.
The Mamba was being mentioned on the site as well but was as yet not into production.
Next I found the DAS web site and this was a complete bow, fully set up,high quality,cheaper than the Bernardini's,,,and short..
After that they started popping out of the woodwork as Hunters an 3D shooters went ILF and manufacturers jumped on the band wagon.

But DAS got in first and started it all as we know it today.

John.
 

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Unfortunately there is yet to be a short metal riser which has anything but shrunken Oly geometry. Seems like everyone looks at GM geometry and just shortens it then tweaks the deflex/limb butt angle to keep the limbs happy and calls it done.

Then again the same can be said for 99% of wood risers as well.

-Grant
 
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Harpman, you said "he also had several Hoyt TD-4+ risers,"
right after you were talking about some Gold Medalist risers.
I have read a GM is a TD4 in the past, I think.
'Splain what a td-4+ is?
Thanks in advance.
Steve....As I know it, which could be wrong, the "+" in the Gold Medalist TD-4 was the "Verti-Tune" plunger bushing...The plunger bushing was mounted in a vertical elongated hole, so that the plunger could be adjusted up and down a little bit...There might have been other differences besides that...???..Take care..Jim
 

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I hunted a 25" Gold Medalist for 4 or 5 years. The trolley that carried the limb butt was VERY hard to quieten down. I finally used 1/4" latex tubing in and a round the trolley and limb butt. Then I pushed foam bits into the pocket to finish. I had home built vibration absorbers in the limb pocket bosses.

I had a tom stroll in one spring 40 yards out. I had been shooting a lot of field. 40 yards was not a problem. Shooting 48# carbon plus and 2016. I was point on 40 yards. Release was smooth as silk, arrow was heading right to the spot. Turkey ducked the arrow..... at the last second. Did not even scare him off. OK duck the next one sucker. He did and the next one too. Then he strolled on down the rode.

Lessened learned. At distance a tom can see better than you can shoot. Get close. :).

I killed a number of does with the rig. I would to this day never call a 25" gold medalist a hunting bow. Still got the riser and limbs.
Rusty....Maybe my bow was the exception, but my G.M. wasn't loud, and didn't have the rattly sound that I've heard some of them make at the shot...Only thing I had to do to make it pretty quiet was get the Tiller right, and I put a took one strip of the "beaver Ball" fur silencers, and cut it in half, length-wise, and put it on the string....I also shot 2213 arrows, that weighed in at or just over the 10 g.p.p. mark, and used a Dacron string,,so that probably helped out...Take care.....Jim
 

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Harpman, I don't doubt that at all. I was on my own with no mentor or advice at the time and new to ilf. I had not even figured out tiller. I did get it shooting very accurately but I am not sure the bow was tuned well.

In my behalf, I will say that I still shoot the bow and it is still pretty loud. :). Maybe I just got a loud one. I'll Take a video with sound pretty soon so you can hear.
 

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Pete
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Discussion Starter #19
I thought I answered your question Pete. I was very serious when I said that pretty much from the day Hoyt invented ILF, people were using production ILF bows for hunting. People weren't nearly as hung up (if at all) on what was considered a "hunting" bow, or a "traditional" bow back then.

Simply put, if it was a bow, and you hunted with it, it was a hunting bow.

The Hoyt Gold Medalist was surely the first ILF bow used for hunting in the mid eighties. There was a camo version of the Hoyt Radian Talon in mid nineties.

Here is a picture of one I found.
Thanks Sylvan, but I guess I needed more definition, I was looking for bows that were "made for hunting" not evolved as a hunting bow ie: thats whats available so thats all I can use. My question has been answered.
 

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Unfortunately there is yet to be a short metal riser which has anything but shrunken Oly geometry. Seems like everyone looks at GM geometry and just shortens it then tweaks the deflex/limb butt angle to keep the limbs happy and calls it done.

Then again the same can be said for 99% of wood risers as well.

-Grant
Grant, since Oly geometry pretty much mirrors classic Hoyt target bow geometry, and Hoyt developed ILF, that sort'a follows, no? A simple case of not fixing what ain't broken.
 
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