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I can shoot instinctive. OK that is I can hit a within 4 or 5 inches of a tennis ball size target from 25yd to 10yds a very high percentage without knowing where the point is. I do know that the arrow is under my eye. I have spent sometime tring to figure out "how" I do it since I have been posting on TT. We have had a nubmer of discussion regard it :).

I have been shoot a 66" 50#@28" double shelf Horne combo hunter long bow. I am using Beeman ICS Hunter 500. I started out shooting known distances from 10 to 25 yds. I shoot at target from pig high to elk high.

I would step up to the shooting line look at the spot I wanted to hit and draw the bow. I would then lower the bow from the my initial draw and try to figure out how I knew it was too low. Did I look at the point, no. Did i look for a gap, no. hmmmmmmm was I pointing with my arm, well no not eactly.

hmmmm the best I could come up with is that some how my arm knew that angle :). It just feels right. I am sure that doesn't make any sense as I read back over the posting but the best I can come up with is that the shot feels right. I do know that I see the shaft and must see the shaft to keep my left and right down the middle.


Now you can fool my instinctive shooting ability easily. Just put me up in a tree and I well miss. So I do have to practice if I'm going to shoot intinctive out of a tree stand. It is indeed how easy it is to fool my instinctive shooting that I started aiming.

LOL so after several months of on and off shooting tring to figure out how I shoot instinctive all I figured out was I do it by feel :)

rusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Stag - you know ya could be right adn I have tought about that. Maybe my eye understands the angle the arrow is pointing or sumpin.

I would just know the arrow was too low. At least in my case I had to have a pretty good idea what the distance was, maybe not in yds but in preception. For example if I step up to a target I tought was a wolf and it turned out to be a coyote, I would shoot over his back. So intellectual depth perception does have sumpin to do with my instinctive shooting ablitily.

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You are still seeing the arrow (subconsciously) when you shoot instinctive, and from repetition your bow arm knows where to be. It takes a lot of practice and repetition to get to where it just "feels right". Shooting instinctive can be another tool in the tool box, and could be a lot of fun.
 

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Fulldraw - LOL well you will notice that there are no state or world championships in my name but I can hit close to what I'm shooting at :).

It is noteworthy that since I have been working pretty hard to become a target shooter I have been scaring myself shooting instinctive so well. heck fire working on your form makes ya a much better instinctive shooter too.

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I do think it is interesting that traditional instinctive is supposed to be the "keep it simple" style. I am not sure that is altogether true cause I work real hard getting arrows to shot where I look. It is not too hard with wooden arrows or AL arrows but it is (or can be) a lot of work getting carbons to shoot for me.

The arrow tuning/selection process is made more difficult for me because I want to cant my bow at a certain angle. So I may have to build the arrow plate out so the bow in not center shoot. This means ya work alot harder getting arrows tuned properly espically with carbon arrows.

rusty
 

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Pinelander has asked for an explanation for the difference between split vision and instinctive. I'll give it a whirl, though I don't think all archers perceive them exactly alike. But to my mind in both methods you focus on the target, more precisely on a point in the center of the target. With the instinctive method you strive to avoid awareness of the position of the arrow, so it will not distract you from the point of aim. With split vision you focus on the target but strive to have some awareness of the position of the arrow, above or below the target. With the latter, in the event of a miss in elevation you can make a concious adjustment. With the former you can merely try again.

The split vision method was developed by Howard Hill, who also called it 'secondary vision.' He often said that anyone can miss on the first shot but that there was no excuse for missing the second.

The difference is subtle and the two methods blend into each other. The faster you are shooting, as on moving or aerial targets, and the shorter the range, the less awareness you will have of the arrow. And when the force is strong with you there will be little awareness of anything but the point you intend to hit. LBG
 

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My shooting only deteriorates when I try to improve on my "instincts". Looking at anything but what I want to hit messes me up. The human eye is a tool capable of amazing feats. I find it interesting that when my wife and daughter shoot I can tell if they are going to shoot high or low just by looking at the angle of the arrow, which is not very large at close distances, and if they miss, it isn't by much.
 

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"The split vision method was developed by Howard Hill, who also called it 'secondary vision.'"

Longbowguy,

I think Hill gave it the name but Pope and Young described the method in their book "Hunting with the Bow and Arrow" published in 1926...
 

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Thanks for the split vision explanation, that's exactly what I'm doing. I've been messing with a recurve for close to a year now, not long I know but here are the aiming systems I've gone through.

I started pure instinctive, or so I thought. I was really gap shooting with a split finger grip and anchor in the corner of my mouth, I just didn't know what it was called.

Next I started to try and define my gaps. I improved but it made my head hurt! ROFLOL! seriously I didn't like trying to figure how many inches low to hold

Next I went to 3 under and a high anchor, fudged my nocking point up a bit and thought I was "pointing"...let's NOT go there LOL. My accuracy improved again out to my point on of 40 yards.

Not long after that we had the 60 yard challenge. I shot the same style, figured out where on the target to hold the point of the arrow, yup aiming (point of aim?) Kept shooting and finally managed an 8" group!

Still not satisfied I put on a sight pin *GASP* Grreatly improved accuracy WHEN I did everyting right, which wasn't often enough. I fought staring at the pin instead of focusing on the target and accuracy suffered drastically. I guess too many years of compound shooting was making me want to hold to long, settle that pin in and release.

So next I tried the SRF. I had better results but I was still way to sight conscious. I messed with the SRF for quite a while, never satisfied with my consistency.

So a few weeks ago I thought, "Sheeze, deer seasons not that far away" So I took of the SRF, bumped the nocking point back up and started shooting again. What I'm doing is split vision shooting, focusing on the target but definetly aware of the gap between the target and my arrow point. With 3 under, and my high anchor the gap is small all the way out to point my point on of about 40 yards.

And I'm shooting better, and more consistently than ever.
 

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"The split vision method was developed by Howard Hill, who also called it 'secondary vision.'"

Longbowguy,

I think Hill gave it the name but Pope and Young described the method in their book "Hunting with the Bow and Arrow" published in 1926...
 

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rusty craine said:
It is noteworthy that since I have been working pretty hard to become a target shooter I have been scaring myself shooting instinctive so well. heck fire working on your form makes ya a much better instinctive shooter too.

rusty
You hit the nail on the head. Working on your form and developing muscle memory using your aiming method is what gives you the "feel" you're talking about. You're moving from mechanical to automatic in your aiming.
 

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I've been thru the same things Bcoulter has. I've been fiddling around with recurves for about 3-4 yrs. now and at first I was definitely gap shooting and knowing approx. yardage was imperitive. I did not like that. The gap works good but it got confusing at times for me because with gapping, the arrow is at its highest point in the arch at 1/2 your point on distance. So basically you have more gap at say 20 yrds(if thats 1/2 your point on) than you do at 15 and 10. I had to think too much for that. Now I'm just focusing more on the spot I want to hit than I do the arrow, although I do see the arrow without looking at it.My eyes used to go back and forth between arrow and target until I released, but now I'm getting that "feeling right" sensation more often now without actually knowing exact yardage(although I do know a ballpark), and I do like that. I have to be careful or I'll catch myself gapping again(not that there's anything wrong with that). I'm more relaxed doing it the way I am now and I need all the relaxation I can get when the moment of truth comes. Treestand shots here in the backyard haven't been that bad as opposed to my ground shooting, but the closer the target to my tree, the more careful I have to be. I tend to shoot high on close in shots from elevated position.I'm at 15-18 ft in the backyard stand and thats the height I'll hunt at if I'm tree hunting. But I'm still not sure what you call it----:confused:
 
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