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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am shooting the stock TradTech strings and they do fine, but I was considering going to a more custom string. How much increase have you seen by doing such on your bow?
What was the material and strand count? Looking at flemish- I just like them better.
 

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The Mad Scientist
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If you already have a "fast flight" string a few fps at most. Endless loop are faster. As you go down in strand count you gain a bit but then you'll lose it back as the string becomes more elastic. The sound also becomes a higher pitch, like a skinny guitar string which is not good for hunting. You also lose a bit in stability so you'll have to check brace height more often. I think making the center serving length as short as possible on any string yields the greatest benefit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
They look better. I know Mike Fedora always made endless loop string for his bows.
 
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I personally dislike skinny strings since I see few benefits and I value stability.

A correctly made endless loop with minimal twists (10-30), minimal serving and made with modern HMPE material will perform noticeably better than an off-the-shelf mass produced one.

-Grant
 

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Back Yard Hack
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The average speed differences are:

From polyester/dacron to standard built fast flight - 8 fps
From standard built fast flight to performance built fast flight - 8 fps

This will vary between materials, between builds, between bows, and between shooters.
I've seen higher gains, as well as lower. Like I said - it's an average.

Assuming same material & same strand count - When properly built & properly fitted to the bow, there is little to ZERO difference between the performance of an endless loop string & a flemish string.

Rick
 

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There's been a few times now that I acquired performance built strings that replaced off the pegboard strings and have had to re-address the tune of my arrows too "stiffer"...usually by dropping point weight...and wound up with performance gains I didn't need a chrono to see.

IMNSHO?....there's so little to a stickbow?...it amplifies the importance of everything of what little is there...from the grip...too the limbs...and to...yes?...even the string...matter fact?...there's been a few bows I owned where the string could make or break the bow...one that stands out is my old 64"/35# Super Kodiak...it came stock with a D97 rope....but after putting one of Mr. Barbee's 12 strand rhino strings on it?...night and day baby. :)
 

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Victim of Geography
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By no means a string maker by trade but have found that construction plays a BIG part in performance.

Nuthatch helped me a lot through PM as well as receiving info from Rick Barbee (even though it is his bread and butter).
 

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Civil but Disobedient
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Rick,

What is the difference between what you call a performance built and a standard built string? Are you referring to Flemish?

Do you see performance and standard builds for endless loop?

By the way, I will be doing some string weight tests some time soon. I think I will start by adding weights to a string and see what impact it has. After that, I will build some strings of different specs.
 

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I personally dislike skinny strings since I see few benefits and I value stability.

A correctly made endless loop with minimal twists (10-30), minimal serving and made with modern HMPE material will perform noticeably better than an off-the-shelf mass produced one.

-Grant
Is HMPE an acronym for Hemp? jk
 

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Back Yard Hack
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Rick,

What is the difference between what you call a performance built and a standard built string? Are you referring to Flemish?

Do you see performance and standard builds for endless loop?

By the way, I will be doing some string weight tests some time soon. I think I will start by adding weights to a string and see what impact it has. After that, I will build some strings of different specs.
Hank, the best way I can describe a performance build in a string is thus:

"A string that has been built to fit a specific bow & bow tune while reducing the amounts of unnecessary weight, slack, and twist, yet still maintain the strength & structural integrity necessary to achieve stability."

This applies to both endless loop & flemish strings, but the endless loop strings are much easier to do.

There's a fine line/threshold between to much & not enough.

Rick
 
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I wouldn't say ones easier to make then the other. I make both, they both have there quirks. Flemish I can build a little quicker but A endless takes less time on the stretcher to break-in then a flemish. I Don't have a hooter shooter, but never seen a speed difference between the 2 when I make both and use same material etc.
A stock fat b50 string compared to a custom lower strand count 15-20 fps would not be a surprise Stock FF string compared 6-7 fps not as much but the bow will feel better.
 

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I think a Flemish is easier to make.
A basic flemish is really pretty easy to make.

A really good/great one is far more difficult with a pretty significant learning curve to being able to build one to exact targeted specs of length and twist count.

At least in my experience.
 

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A few years back I went into the "skinny strings world" to see for myself what is up and down. I have a shooting machine and and chronograph and made some identical endless loop strings in 8125 and Dynaflight 97. I had from 8 strands up to 16 strands in steps of 2 strands pr. string. You know what I found? Absolutely nothing !! The difference in speed between the 8 and 16 strands was between 0 - 2 fps depending on what bow it was tested on. On some bows (longbows) the skinnier strings made the bow recoil less but other than that very minor differences.

Before some start screaming about tuning let me say this too. The skinnier strings needs a stiffer arrow to tune well which would indicate better performance - But as matter of fact that didn't translate into much over the chronograph.

One more thing I tested was the "saying" that a very twisted string kills speed. Let me say again that didn't show over the chronograph either. I had a string twisted app. 60 times versus one with almost none and the difference didn't show.

It appears some have an magical ingredient to put into the string making but I didn't so I can't say anything about that :)
 

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This is going to be a bit of a ramble.

Here is my theory:
We get all of our string material from the compound world where string weight isn't NEARLY as big a deal as it is to us. Where stability is #1 by a long shot.
Simply put: even a 6 strand string on a 40# stickbow will never see the strain per strand that a 20 strand cable will on a compound.

So compound string materials are designed with stability first and actual mass weight is not really that important.

For us it's basically reversed. Our strings are massively overbuilt from a stability standpoint.

So what can we do:
#1 would be to build a skinny string, but then you run into the problem of needing thicker serving. Serving adds weight, thicker serving may even add more weight then the strands which you removed from the string.

#2 what if we had the option of string material which was lighter mass per strand but the same diameter as the currently used materials. This would allow us to keep the strand-count high and serving thin.

I've tried to use manufacturers data to compare string volume to weight but that is a very uphill task. Wax content creates a lot of variability.

-Grant
 

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Seems easier to design a nock that fits thinner servings. Or am I missing something?
 

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Seems easier to design a nock that fits thinner servings. Or am I missing something?
You can get small groove nocks to fit almost any arrow. But you won't catch me shooting a string that thin.

-Grant
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think this is one of those things that can become over complicated very easily.
 
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