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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have actually been curious about this for a while now and admittedly have only been following suit because "its what the cool kids are doing"... but i honestly dont actually like having a stabilizer out back of the bow to keep the bow balanced upright in the webbing between my thumb and forefinger. i would rather keep it as bare as possible. when i got my satori, i noticed (just like with the excel) that its pretty top heavy and requires a bit of weight out back to "balance" it out. but my question is directed more to the actual shot itself. accuracy, if you will. if the arrow has already cleared the bow in the split second that it takes for the top of the bow to even start rocking back toward me, why do i NEED to balance it out? thanks in advance for any clarity you can afford me.
 

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A stabilizer places weight away from the bow to resist movement from torque. It is an inertial effect. The further the weight from the bow, the lighter the weight has to be. Balancing the bow, at full draw helps to hold the bow steady. I am not sure the roll forward means anything other than the fact that the bow cannot be balanced at full draw and at brace. When the weight moves forward during the shot, the stabilized bow becomes front heavy.

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You're right... the arrow has left the bow.... but getting hit in the head with the top limb coming back can put you off pretty quick!

I find I can get away with a bow with top weight since I grip with index finger and thumb and tuck the rest aside.... I don't use a sling. On my Titan III I have a short stab so that it only tilts back to 11:30 on the clock. With the stab it will be something like 10:30.

With an 8oz weight I find my DAS Dalaa 21" just sits in the hand neutral (in my grip.)
 

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As Hank says, controlling the reaction of the bow on the shot is almost a by-product of the true purpose of a stabiliser: to stabilise the bow at full draw.
 

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I think the loose grip can be carried to extremes.When you drop the string unless you are shooting a very heavy riser or a working stabilizer I would think you are going to get movement of the bow maybe even before the arrow has cleared the rest.
I hold my bow like Daniel.I have tried the heavy riser/never a long rod but have trouble holding the added weight.(arm fatigue)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A stabilizer places weight away from the bow to resist movement from torque. It is an inertial effect. The further the weight from the bow, the lighter the weight has to be. Balancing the bow, at full draw helps to hold the bow steady. I am not sure the roll forward means anything other than the fact that the cannot be balanced at full draw and at brace. When the weight moves forward during the shot, the stabilized bow becomes front heavy.
As Hank says, controlling the reaction of the bow on the shot is almost a by-product of the true purpose of a stabiliser: to stabilise the bow at full draw.
so... IF i am able to hold the bow steady (enough) at full draw without the stabilizer or balancing weight, and i can get a clean release as well, then for a hunting rig i am assuming, i might as well take it off? i dont mind the bow rock toward me after the shot... again the shot was already taken, since i can control that after the fact.

You're right... the arrow has left the bow.... but getting hit in the head with the top limb coming back can put you off pretty quick!

I find I can get away with a bow with top weight since I grip with index finger and thumb and tuck the rest aside.... I don't use a sling. On my Titan III I have a short stab so that it only tilts back to 11:30 on the clock. With the stab it will be something like 10:30.

With an 8oz weight I find my DAS Dalaa 21" just sits in the hand neutral (in my grip.)
thats pretty much how i grip the bow also. i dont use a sling either. just my thumb and forefinger tips touching and the rest of my fingers out of the way, either tucked in or sticking out. so after the shot, i can definitely control the bow from bonking me on the noggin.

I think the loose grip can be carried to extremes.When you drop the string unless you are shooting a very heavy riser or a working stabilizer I would think you are going to get movement of the bow maybe even before the arrow has cleared the rest.
I hold my bow like Daniel.I have tried the heavy riser/never a long rod but have trouble holding the added weight.(arm fatigue)
i see what you are saying. even the slightest bit of movement could send an arrow several inches off course at distance. but none of my stabilizers are "working" stabilizers. either a short (8" or less) extension, or actual weights added to the lower half of my bow to balance it upright in my grip. so if those dont actually affect my shot for the better, im thinking i might as well not use them lol.

i love my satori/hex combo. love it to death. but i also dont want to have so many things attached to it that it starts to look like a compound bow with no wheels.

ill take her out back today after work and do some testing without anything on her. my mistake was getting her "set up" while it was raining and couldnt shoot, rather than just adding the things i NEEDED. lol. and since i thought that a bow had to be balanced upright in my grip, i went ahead and did that.
 

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My advice:

Stand in front of a target, and with an arrow, draw and hold a few times. See how steady the bow feels. Close your eyes if it helps.

Then take the stabiliser off and do the same thing.

Go with whatever feels the most steady.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My advice:

Stand in front of a target, and with an arrow, draw and hold a few times. See how steady the bow feels. Close your eyes if it helps.

Then take the stabiliser off and do the same thing.

Go with whatever feels the most steady.
sound advice. thanks!
 

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I may be wrong.

I thought the biggest part of the value from a stabilizer was that it resisted torque induced during the shot.
 

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So, the guys that shoot the competitions often seem to say on the boards that the 12" stab is worth something like 10 points. Perhaps one of those guys will comment, but in my mind that says that no matter how well your bow is balanced, the shot reaction (not post shot) is affected by that 12" stick...

But I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express, and for the most part I shoot with antenna all over my bow (Oly). I have been a long time dabbler in barebow (but not very well) and haven't shot barebow with a stab.
 

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I have the 10 oz. on mine, night and day difference. The feel of the discharge is like two different bows. I prefer the feel of the weight some at draw but most at discharge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
just got done with a session out back without the stabilizer. or any balancing weight. could it be that im just that much a novice that i didnt notice any difference? could it be that set up is just that good? i dont know. but im not putting the stabilizer back on for now. i did not see any difference in my accuracy at 18yds. if anything, i shot better today without the stab.
 

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I think as you move back and as your shot becomes more consistent you will be more likely to see those differences.
For me 15 to 40 pretty much any bow I was just as happy shooting without any stabs. Moving back 40 to 70 and having just a long rod offered a marked improvement holding on target.



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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think as you move back and as your shot becomes more consistent you will be more likely to see those differences.
For me 15 to 40 pretty much any bow I was just as happy shooting without any stabs. Moving back 40 to 70 and having just a long rod offered a marked improvement holding on target.

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based on that, and considering my primary interest in archery is to hunt, then i should be fine then at these distances without a stab right? legitimate question lol. i read it back to myself and it sounded like i was being smart, but im not. just want to know what i can get away with (or without) as far as my archery goes. bow season is only a few months away and i want to make sure i am practicing the way i will be hunting.
 

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I wouldn't fret about it...Just about every bow I've ever owned rocked back at the shot with no stab or weights...shelf's aren't radius'ed because bows remain perfectly vertical at the shot. ;)
 

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If the question is: would a long-ish (say 10-12") stab with weights improve my groups? Yes it should or the comp folks wouldn't be using it (and the physics mentioned of resisting torque and balance.)

Does a stubby weight in the stab hole (i.e. a BB type weight) improve groups? Yes it should as well up to a point... since heavier gives you more stability. A stubby weight's ability to reduce torque is less than a 12" stab of course, unless its huge :)

OP asked "why do I need to balance it out?" - I think the answer is you don't have to if its shooting as well as you need to for the distance you want, provided the bow is not hitting you on the head. The reasons to add weight are all stated... it's personal preference (or competition related.)

When I started out, I wanted all my bows to be as "bare" as well, but in the end I found it was much more pleasant and accurate with a short stab or Barebow weight. I still shoot my Hoyt Game Master II bolt down off the shelf with no weights. It tips back more but nothing dreadful and I used it for a trad-style competition.
 

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As Daniel said above, you'll be fine with the bow just the way it is as long as it meets your accuracy requirements at the distances you'll take shots on game at.
I've never been concerned with the tip back I got on unweighted risers. Some people act like its gonna take your head off, I dunno. Some freestyle archers let the bow roll forward and past them others let the lower limb bounce off the leg. None are going to the hospital for treatment due to related injuries ;)


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Bear in mind that adding weight or a stabilizer will change your tune and the feel of the shot. You have to adjust to gain full advantage of the change. A few days may not be enough. I put a 34 inch long rod with 11 inch vbar are on my riser. First thing I noticed was that it was steadier, but heavy. Also my point-on lowered by 5 yards. I liked it but realized it would take some time to get right. I am considering going with it after FITA season where it is legal for NFAA barebow.

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There are two aspects of stabilization. Weight helps resist movement from form tweaks. Putting a weight out at the end of a stabilizer helps prevent torquing. Add to that bow balance which helps hold you on target. FITA barebow allows you to add weight but prevents you from placing it very far from the riser. That means you do not get any help with torque. This is what makes FITA barebow more challenging than NFAA.
 
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