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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was looking at U.K Bowyer Andy Soars' site, hoping it had been updated and he was now selling the Zeta here...no such luck...

However, I did come across some nice pics of his Swift Flatbow...it's based on a Holmegaard limb profile I really like the looks of, but haven't heard much about.

From his site I know it's a Noethern European design over 4,500 years old...

...but when updated with modern materials what sort of shooting characteristics does the limb have?

Here's the pics--



 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Here's a pic of Andy's T/D 'Curve...don't know if he's changed the design or not, but I love the riser on this one...

 

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I have built several in selfbows. as you can see the outer limb that thins down is stiff (comes from the belly thickness in self bows). in a self bow made of white wood the bow needs to be fairly long and the working limb areas pretty wide. If done will (and one of the most difficult to to tiller in wood) it increase the arrow speed to near max speed that can be produced forom a wooden bow. If the style in made of that wonderful "yellar rose of texas bodark" the bow can be a screamer for an unbacked selfbow. the trick in tiller the bow (out of wood) is to take every gram of wood of the narrow tips ya can and still leave them stiff. got to work slow and carefully.

I'd love to shoot one in glass. i made one that is a pretty fair bow with a wooden belly (dandy osage plank) and a glass back. Iused the japanese cord and wedge system to put a little refelx in the system and press the form the glass and bodark.

Glass bow should be qiuck and smooth (ya remember what other bow has stiff tips :) )

rusty
 

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keep in mind the commets above were comparing wooden bows to wooden bows. i would be so interested to see how a flat glass bow of this style would compared to a CX. I think it would lose the race but it might give a better showing than we would at first think.

rusty
 

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Thats a great idea. I think that desighn as merrit. :)
 

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21st. century, when it was B&J archery, made a glass bow in the holmgaard style. Can't remember the name... maybe Eclipse, i don't know.
A friend of mine has one in a heavy weight, & it flat out smokes an arrow.
BTW those are good looking bows.

Rusty, you never made a holmgaard out of any trashwood, say in hickory?
I never made one in that style of wood bow, but have a couple of friends that did. They shot good & they knew how to tiller well, but i didn't think they shot any better than a few styles i was messin around with.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Rusty,

The Saluki Ibex I owned had a similar profile, except with Siyah's...

Those stiff tips have always fascinated me...levers...just seems like they could be made from a triangular carbon tube...extremely light and stiff...

What would be the drawbacks of such a design? I'm guessing they are difficult to tiller, even in glass...

Also, it seems like they would lose stability in longer lengths.

And they wouldn't have that classic "whip" ended feel of a thick cored/narrow limbed longbow...so the shot wouldn't feel complete as quickly and the bow would probably lose more performance with short draws...

Just conjecture, of course...
 

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I have made a pretty good informal study of unbacked wooden bows. I have tested 100's thru the speed trap (very objectively) and for their shooting manners (very subjective). the fastest non-back bow I've tested was a Holmegaard (a bit of extreme holmegaard) it was made from a maple board and shoot 9 gr per pound at 100 fps + draw weight + 15fps ??? (i'd have to check my notes but I beleive of the nonbacked bows I checked 100+draw+15 was the fastest tough as I think on it, it could have been 18fps...don't think one got to 20fps.

not dis'n any of our ancestors but the holmegaard design is rocket science compared to the english long bows catapult science (since my ancestors were welch I can say that).

the holmegaard's drawbacks in the world it lived in was it was designed by an Einstein and had to be made by a micheal angleo :).

today i think the holmegaard manners will be enhanced by a 10gr per pound arrow. it just ain't gonna be fast enough for the radical carbon shooters :) but is suspect it would be a deer slaying son of a gun

rusty
 

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Atlantis, I've looked at the Holmegaard and it has potential. Rusty...Sounds like you are the ONLY one that's ever built one correctly! :) I've seen a bunch that were supposed to be a "Holmegaard" but they failed to pick up on the most important key, the tips have to be narrow and thicker then the working limb. Most get the outside profile correct but make the tips the same or less thickness then the working part of the limb. That defeats the purpose. No doubt over a normal straight limbed bow, or at least the way most build them, it would be an improvement if built narrow and thick. That's only one of many ways to stiffen a limb tip with reflex and recurve being the most common.....O.L.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
O.L...why do I get the feeling you've looked into a lot more than you're telling us about...lol...

This bow design stuff always makes me feel like I think I just summited a peak for the first time, then find a cigarette butt...
 

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I have a J & B 21st. Cen. that has that limb design. It is a ROCKET and very smooth. It's 68" long and has the square grip. It's too heavy for me to target shoot with anymore, [email protected] It's made of actionwood and glass. Darrell George won the IBO Triple crown and Worlds with this bow.



Bill
 

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Pete,
I think that design is exactly what Lukas is doing with his version of the siyah...only his is more compact. He is essentially manipulating the dimensions in comparison to the pics you posted in this thread. All the Salukis I've owned had a very similar design in the siyahs....almost a thinner (side to side) wedge at the tips....very effective, as you know. I also think that the static tip siyahs have a great feel upon the shot, unlike any other genre of bow....dunno how to say it other than it feels like a falling ax blade striking the chopping block and sinking deep....sorta an accelerating slicing feeling with a satisying soft "thump" at the end....does that visual make sense?
-Rob
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yes, I know what you're talking about, Rob...what I found a little maddening was also that feeling of zero stack...like you weren't drawing the bow far enough to really wring the full potential out of it...of course my Saluki was "60.
Have to say, I wish Lucas would put a little more mass in his risers...then they wouldn't be as good looking though...
 

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My buddy has one of the carbon model J&Bs that looks just like the picture.Never cronoed it but it is quick and one of the reasons I have always wanted to try the design sometime in a bow.I don't think his is any faster than a lot of the newer longbows however and it seems it was shooting about like his BW recurve when he tested it with my crony last year for a school project his son was doing.
 

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I like the looks of that Holmgaard bow...but, the reverse-taper limb, with a fast width taper, and some good reflex-deflex should be as good, or better, and ALOT easier for a bowyer to get "on weight" with, and to tiller as well...I think that O.L.'s limb design is the best there is, with the reverse-taper and fast width taper being a close second...And the reverse-taper limb being easier to make...Now WHO wants to build me a 66" longbow, with a long, heavy mass weight riser with alot of deflex, with short, reverse-taper limbs made from bamboo and Carbon??...Black or brown glass, please..Dont forget the freakishly small limb tip overlays...Riser to be Dymondwood, with layers of glass and phenolic....50#@ 28"....Y'all let me know when it's done!!..L.O.L....Harpman
 
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