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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the Guru's out there on Hill Bows and limb mass weight.

45 pound Hill Bow at 70 inches? OK,,too much limb mass weight and sure the Bow is gonna draw easy but be a dog for speed.

50 pounds and under maybe 66 in length and more efficient.

The mass weight of the limbs on a Hill style, or any Bow for that matter will slow it down and in a Hill with the longer limbs will be shocky to shoot.

Then there comes the short handle sections and a short fade in the handle sections on a shorter Bow and you pick up speed and less shock.

Comments?
 

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Sam....In my experience, how well a Hill style bow is made will determine it's shooting qualities more so than length... And keeping in mind that bow reaction(handshock?) will be more or less as draw weight changes, and that longer bows will have more mass proportional to the length is true, but doesn't automatically mean that the longer bow will be slower, or have more handshock...It's a about Build quality, meaning Tillering/Timing the limbs to perfection, and all that sorta thing...I've shot Hill style bows that were from 62" all the way to 70", and owned them from 64" up to 69", and some of the worst that I've shot were short Hill style bows...Truthfully, I've shot Hill style bows that were pretty quick, and had very low handshock, and some were just awful, toad slow, and enough handshock to actually make my shoulder/neck and head hurt, no exaggeration...IMHO, there is no excuse or reason that some of these Hill style bows should be such out and out turds, except that they just aren't well made bows...And the name on the bow doesn't matter with practically ANY Longbow, Hill style or not, some just shoot nice, and some are just crap...I hope that this helps Ya out, feel free to P.M. Me if Ya want...I'm NOT a "Guru" on any subject, but I am a bow junkie, and have been shooting/buying/selling Trad bows since around 1989 or there-abouts...Take care!......Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Hank but my premise was limb mass weight versus low poundage and the desire of those to have a 70 inch bow at 45 pounds because it draws so easy.

Fact is the longer limbs and mass weight is out of proportion to the poundage they are drawing. They would gain by having a shorter length at the lower poundage's.

Here is a quote from Nate Steen

"An American semi longbow has it's performance in a narrow deep core limb. This is a challenge in lighter weights. The tendency is to make a thin limb to keep the weight low but then you just have a long flat bow. Better to make the bow 1" to 1 1/8" wide and deeper....maybe about .400 thick including glass. If the weight is too much you can trap the belly to reduce weight.

Also, I wouldn't go longer than 66" due to the low weight. Lighter bows don't generate as much limb recoil speed and a longbow with long limbs and slow limb speed are shocky. You want a lighter, stiffer (deeper), faster moving limb and you get that with a shorter limb. That's one of the factors I see where guys are turned off by American semi longbows...they want a 45ish pound, 68-70" long longbow because everyone says they are the most stable. They get the bow and it is smooth to draw.....(but any bow under 50# should feel smooth)....but the thing is way shockier than their 45# r/d bow and they wonder why, and the bow stays on the rack.

A shorter semi longbow in the lighter weights will have a lighter, faster limb that will be STABLE and that won't jump around and shock as much because why? Remember physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion...etc. the lighter quicker limb will throw its energy into the arrow and be done. There isn't extra mass weight in the limb to stay in motion and create excess shock like a heavier limbed longer bow. "
 

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Sam.....There is some truth to Your thinking, for sure, but keep in mind that a good Bowyer, with a good design, and attitude, will know how to get the draw weight/length ratio's worked out by using the tapers in the lamination's, small changes in riser lengths, and limb width taper, and at least several of the old school bowyers varied glass thickness, and thickness tapers, according to what the Customer wanted/needed...In my mind, a well made bow should show small, if any real differences, in shooting qualities, and performance, between 66", and 70", in a draw weight range from say 45#, to 55#, maybe even up to around 60#, as long as the draw length to bow length, and arrow weight stays proportional...Maybe I'm all wet??...:)...Take care!......Jim
 

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I think limb mass has little to do with why a Hill or any other flatbow are slower than other types of bows. Does it contribute? Sure, just very little and maybe ever so slightly more as limbs get longer. I'll be the first to agree that small things can make a huge difference in shootability with a Hill. Just changing string material can completely transform a Hill, more than any other type I've tried.
 

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I think limb mass has little to do with why a Hill or any other flatbow are slower than other types of bows. Does it contribute? Sure, just very little and maybe ever so slightly more as limbs get longer. I'll be the first to agree that small things can make a huge difference in shootability with a Hill. Just changing string material can completely transform a Hill, more than any other type I've tried.
WORD!......Jim
 

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A lot of conjecture above, not many facts. My 45# 70" Tembo shoots very well in my hands. I believe a Hill design bow of unknown make and about 50 pound draw weight still holds the world record for Field Archery, to 80 yards. Long middle weight Hills have taken many other championships and plenty of game. Many of us like them and some prefer them to all others. Probably more longbows have been built to that design than any other. If you don't personally care to shoot one, fine, but why offer unsolicited and poorly informed criticism? - lbg
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A lot of conjecture above, not many facts. My 45# 70" Tembo shoots very well in my hands. I believe a Hill design bow of unknown make and about 50 pound draw weight still holds the world record for Field Archery, to 80 yards. Long middle weight Hills have taken many other championships and plenty of game. Many of us like them and some prefer them to all others. Probably more longbows have been built to that design than any other. If you don't personally care to shoot one, fine, but why offer unsolicited and poorly informed criticism? - lbg
Thank you for the replies gents, all very interesting and I particularly have a real draw toward Hills myself.

I have two from 7 Lakes which are stringfollows and 68 long bows. I actually seem to be really consistent with them since I learned how to properly grip them.

Hills are getting to be more and more in my future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Article written by: Fred Anderson, TAS Senior Historian

It seems to me that the main goal of The Traditional Archery Society is to be able to gather recurve and longbow shooters and have them communicate their archery ideas and activities in an organized, collegial, and friendly manner (a structured, happy bunch of guys and gals playing with bows 'n arrows). Other goals, of the Society, are to recognize noteworthy current achievements made by its members now, and also to acknowledge those archers and manufacturers of the past times that made significant contributions.

Now here is where I come in-the part about "past times." I suspect that the main reason that they wanted me to write about archery history was simply because of me being "very long in the tooth:" but, anyway, I feel honored to do it. Since being a young teenager, a love of the doings of archery from earlier times has fascinated me, and I'll try my best.

I want to strongly recognize that the fount of all archery knowledge is not held in any one individual-here is where YOU come in! (NOW PAY ATTENTION!) The process will go like this: I will write a short history or biographical sketch: then YOU will be able to interact and add to it from YOUR knowledge of the subject matter.

OK, let's get started on the first one; it is on Ben Garrison Thompson, a very influential archer from the 1920's thru the 1950's.

Thompson was an influential archer from the 1920's thru the 1950's. He was a member of a gathering of archers from the Pacific Northwest that was a hub of the sport at the time. His friends called him B. G. or Ben. He and a friend, John C. Davis, started publishing a magazine, Ye Sylvan Archer, in May 1927. This fine little periodical captured the hearts of bowmen and ran until just after WWII broke out. Through this magazine and others, B. G. related his stories and tales.

B. G. was accomplished in most all forms of the sport from making equipment to target archery and field archery to flight-shooting, roving, and hunting. He liked to write and was published in several magazines. He and I are both Huskies having graduated from the University of Washington. He became an entomologist or "bug doctor" and eventually as a professor at Oregon State University.

Thompson had a total love affair with going into wild places and hunting with his yew longbows and wood arrows. He was quite successful, too, having bagged a moose in Canada, and many elk, deer, bear, cougar, and a hoard of small game.

His son, Norm, told me of an interesting adventure B. G. had after WWII. He went to Persia (Iran) on a government assignment to check up on some kind of insect problem. The place was also plagued with very dangerous, roving bands of deadly robbers. On day he was driving with a few companions across some lonely, vast wasteland. As was his custom, his bow and arrows were stowed away in the car, too. Suddenly, a hoard of horsemen robbers came upon them and forced a stop. The leader demanded to know what they were doing there. B. G. recognized that he was in a tight spot; so he calmly told him that he was from America, and they were there to help stop an insect problem. The robbers had guns and were armed to the teeth, and their leader did not seemed impressed with B. G. and his companions. The leader was gazing into the car at the terrified occupants and their equipment.

He spied the bow and arrows. "What are those!" he demanded. B. G. explained that he was an archer. A smile crossed the robber's face and told his band. He commanded B. G. to get his tackle and demonstrate his skill. A target of some sort was selected some 20 yard away. The robbers were keenly watching to see how B. G. would do.

Now, B. G. was a pretty fair shot, but he knew that this was to be the archery challenge of his life. He placed an arrow on the string, took a deep breath, concentrated, pulled his bow and shot the arrow into the spot. A cheer arose from the robbers, and their leader prompted him to shoot again. B. G. repeated the performance and demonstrated a little more, much to the glee of his audience.

The mood of robber leader and his band had changed, and they were now happy and pleased. The leader told B. G. to get in the car and go in peace and to be careful. B. G. and his companions were much relieved as they went on their way!

That wasn't the end of Ben Thompson's Persian archery adventures, however. While there he bagged gazelles and jackals.

Ben Thompson lived archery a good long time, until he was 98 years old, passing away to where all good archers go in November 1989. His son said that B. G. was out flinging arrows five days before he died!

It is a mystery why, when some people strap on a quiver and grab a bow, their whole lives change. B. G. was one of those people; but he was something more-he was a positive influence that helped a fledgling sport grow and mature into an activity that thousands of enjoy and participate in today. Truly, he is one of archery's bygone, gallant champions.

Big Buck taken with a longbow
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Great Story Sam. Thank You.
 
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