Trad Talk Forums banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Forgive the length.
Admin: feel free to relocate to proper category.

Background:
I've been shooting recurve for 11 months after not picking up a bow for 20 years. Shot compound then. Arrow finger Asa kid with green fiberglass.

Currently shooting a 66" - 45# warf bow. Drawing 59# @ 30.5" d/l.
Shooting instinctively. (Not arguing about it) Shooting split with a tab.
Since last February, I have shot a documented 10,K arrows from April to July and an estimated 10,K since August.

Here is the issue at hand.
At the 20 yd. indoor range, I can push a golf tee into black foam target and put 95% of my shots within 3" if not splitting the tee.

At the same range, I can place 3D animals at various locations and have 90% to 95% shots placed in their ears.

At the same range, I can shoot a 20cm and have 75% or better in the 7 ring. This will be the picture of the black and white target with the heavy black X.
a.k.a the flip side of a 5 spot.

These above examples are more than acceptable for shooting recurve less than a year.
No complaints so far....
However:
At the same range, I can shoot at the flip side of a Vegas 3 spot.
It's the 10 ringed, 5 colored target, but a very faint + in the center.
At this target, arrows are scattered all over the field.

No, I have no visual issues with color. My vision is excellent, beyond the length of my arm. Glasses are required to read 1.25 diopter. I can easily see a squirrel in the woods at 100yds.

So here is the issue as I perceive it.
My Shot process goes like this:
1)"Pick your spot" - inhale. (My eyes never come off the spot picked) (and it's no bigger than a golf tee head. A few hairs is perfect, if contrast is there)
2)"Here we go" - exhale. (Draw to anchor) (eyes still on spot)
3)"Mac-n-cheese" (Arrow is launched)

I am struggling at being able to pick my spot on the colored target because I can't see the lightly weighted lines on the target face.
(You will see the difference in the photos)
Therefore I am struggling with picking my spot.

I've tried to pretent I see the X. Doesn't work.
I've tried to pretend there's a hole I have to shoot through. Doesn't work.
I knows there's a fix, if I can get the right direction.
I am looking for constructive suggestions as to how I pick a spot that's not there.
It may be a mental block, who knows what goes on in the cranium?

Thanks for the read and your thoughts.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
I aim, and still have a hard time switching from the NFAA blue face to the 10 ring face. I am shooting the 10 ring face now and will skip a shoot in the state (TFAA) series this weekend, because I have to shoot the 10 ring face at Lancaster next week.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
Struggle with it too. This is one of the weaknesses of shooting with the 'burn a hole' instinctive method - you need a spot to grab onto.

If the gold is too large and the target's fresh I find it hard. I have been 'drawing' in mind lines crossing the target, a large X, through center. That seems to work but is an extra mental process that I have to switch on. Sometimes an existing arrow can help if there is one as I then can imagine a spot next to it in the gold 'right there'.

Really system shooting is better for such situations. Just the way it is. Instinctive shooters (or 'instinctive gap'/split-vision aimers like myself) have to work the imagination.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,049 Posts
You have got to get your mind right. - Strother Martin as the Warden in Cool Hand Luke.

Sounds like your are overarming, a common fault. Example: there was an Olympic archer who was legally blind. He could not see the rings on the target much less the small center. He could see the vague round shape and imagine where the center was. He won championships.

Many, perhaps most top target archers do not focus their minds on target center, or even on aiming at all. Their eyes maybe, but not their minds. Their conscious minds are generally focused on shot execution, generally around back, somewhere around the rhomboid muscles, the scapula or simply the back of the shoulder near the upper arm.

There is no use focussing on aiming if you cannot execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at. Top hands focus on execution.

So, you ask, how does aiming occur? Good question. You have an on board aiming device called the subconscious mind. It has great capacity to achieve goals; give it a goal and it will strive to achieve that goal. It does it better than you can. With practice it can do it with a ball, a rock, or an arrow. If it could not we would have died out a million years ago.

Tell it to hit the center ring and focus on shot execution. It is a bit slow, so it may take a few sessions to get really good. - lbg
 

· Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm suspicious that part of the problem is stating that there is a problem .
The act of verbalizing what the issue is, establishes it as a problem.
And as I ponder a solution, I thought, if I just had old fashioned iron sights, I wouldn't need a spot on the target...lol
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
Not really a 'problem' IMO just a challenge of perception and focus. Exagerrated example: stand 10m away from a 2m diameter blank white disc and most will struggle to aim and group at the center, simply because there is nothing to aim at - there is no guide.

On a typical target size and setting without an 'x' in the gold, the stringwalker has the advantage as they can put their actual point 'in the middle' of the gold just as anyone can point at the center of a plate. A conscious gapper can put their point on a known specific ring or other visual feature below or above and trust in their knowledge that it will send the arrow to gold .

Us instinctive aimers have either our imagination to 'project' a spot inside that circle, or use the kind of Zen-like autopilot LBG seems to have mastered. I'm not there yet, always looking to put arrows on real (or imaginary) spots.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,332 Posts
It might be something specific to yellow. Yellow isnt a normal color - what you see is a virtual. color.

Personally I see the difference between yellow and red but its hard for me to to focus on the boundary. If it was yellow bordered by blue it would be much easier for my eyes.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Not really a 'problem' IMO just a challenge of perception and focus. Exagerrated example: stand 10m away from a 2m diameter blank white disc and most will struggle to aim and group at the center, simply because there is nothing to aim at - there is no guide.

On a typical target size and setting without an 'x' in the gold, the stringwalker has the advantage as they can put their actual point 'in the middle' of the gold just as anyone can point at the center of a plate. A conscious gapper can put their point on a known specific ring or other visual feature below or above and trust in their knowledge that it will send the arrow to gold .

Us instinctive aimers have either our imagination to 'project' a spot inside that circle, or use the kind of Zen-like autopilot LBG seems to have mastered. I'm not there yet, always looking to put arrows on real (or imaginary) spots.
So what is the path to that achievement?
I do not think form or practice is the answer because it is a gray muscle journey.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,378 Posts
I am a bowhunter. So this is my view. Lol. I can say I hate this target as well as the black with the white center. I have better groups on a white plate or white with a black dot or a animals round.
As best I can say is you have to determine the direction you approach these target from the others. Therefore, Tuned for that direction may be different as results will follow. Because your focus on putting your sight at the edge. I suspected your mind wants to jump to the center during the release.
Hunting. I have to condition or account for these movements. Very rare to get a wide open, well lite, straight on shot. Lol
 

· Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am a bowhunter. So this is my view. Lol. I can say I hate this target as well as the black with the white center. I have better groups on a white plate or white with a black dot or a animals round.
As best I can say is you have to determine the direction you approach these target from the others. Therefore, Tuned for that direction may be different as results will follow. Because your focus on putting your sight at the edge. I suspected your mind wants to jump to the center during the release.
Hunting. I have to condition or account for these movements. Very rare to get a wide open, well lite, straight on shot. Lol
I get what you are saying.
However, in a Vegas 450 league shoot, I have one choice in a target, the 3 spot or the single spot.
As frustrating as some might suspect this is, down deep I welcome the challenge, because once I get this figured out and start to improve, that will be great satisfaction. For me, the accomplishment of a challenge is as much gratification as a well executed shot.
That is what motivates me to try and figure it out.
I'm a pretty average guy and I'm sure others have been here.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
I get what you are saying.
However, in a Vegas 450 league shoot, I have one choice in a target, the 3 spot or the single spot.
As frustrating as some might suspect this is, down deep I welcome the challenge, because once I get this figured out and start to improve, that will be great satisfaction. For me, the accomplishment of a challenge is as much gratification as a well executed shot.
That is what motivates me to try and figure it out.
I'm a pretty average guy and I'm sure others have been here.
3 spot feels good when it works. I will not shoot it on game day though.

Art Circle Paint Pattern Electric blue
 

· Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So this evening before league started I drew an X on the target I shoot.
I sat it out at about 45' and gave it a go.
Then I moved it back to about 50' and shot some more.
When I was able to hold my focus, I could do some damage. The key word here is "when".
My goal will be to mark a visible X and start at 30', then move back 5' at a time.
Then fade the X a little at a time.
With only 2 more shoots left, it's doubtful I'll get this worked out in time to matter for scoring purposes.
Bt that's OK, I'll kill it next year.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
These target faces are optimized for sight shooting or system shooting. Lighter colors in the center gives better sight picture with sights or system. A large black dot won't work for most sight shooters very well as you cannot put black on black, not this critical nowadays anymore with all the fiber optics and scopes on the arrow launching devices with wheels.
Look at military man targets made for iron sights. The ten is in the middle of the skin colored face. Makes it easy to sight with iron or peep sights even at 200-300 meters.
Try the same if you camoflage the man target face at 200 or 300 meters. Much harder to shoot 10s.....
The NFAA field targets work decent for instinctive and sight shooters, the NFAA hunter target works great for sight shooters and moslty suck for instinctive shooters, especially on longer distances.
I have never understood why the 300 round cannot be shot on the Field Targets. Same size, same scoring. And I bet back in the day it probably was shot on the Field Target Faces.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
These target faces are optimized for sight shooting or system shooting. Lighter colors in the center gives better sight picture with sights or system. A large black dot won't work for most sight shooters very well as you cannot put black on black, not this critical nowadays anymore with all the fiber optics and scopes on the arrow launching devices with wheels.
Look at military man targets made for iron sights. The ten is in the middle of the skin colored face. Makes it easy to sight with iron or peep sights even at 200-300 meters.
Try the same if you camoflage the man target face at 200 or 300 meters. Much harder to shoot 10s.....
The NFAA field targets work decent for instinctive and sight shooters, the NFAA hunter target works great for sight shooters and moslty suck for instinctive shooters, especially on longer distances.
I have never understood why the 300 round cannot be shot on the Field Targets. Same size, same scoring. And I bet back in the day it probably was shot on the Field Target Faces.
How is the nfaa blue face any different than the black faced field targets?
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top