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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay folks having an issue with my current stringwalking tune.

When shoot with no crawl I get BS hitting in with the fletched at 20.
Shooting with 20m crawl and BS is hitting right with quite a bit of tail kick.

I figured that perhaps I'm getting some contact and that is causing a false weak indication. This has been a problem for me with the Hex6 in the past but I'm shooting an arrow which should be actually weak this time (30" GT 600 UL with 80gr up front from [email protected])

I've played with the tiller bolts a bit and it does seem to get better with more pre-load. However once I get the no-crawl and 20m craw hitting close together vertically then I tried the 30m and it's out on the weak side.

At this point I'm thinking I may have to go max pre-load, forward plunger position and high BH to get these arrows down the middle.

Any input from the brain-trust would be appreciated. I sure wish I has a highspeed camera.

-Grant
 

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Civil but Disobedient
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Grant,

Let me know how it goes. After the first week in June I am back to my recurve and stringwalking my HEX6. I am preparing for the FITA field in Arizona in October. I was in the middle of tuning when I took a 180 and started competing with my longbow.
 

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Grant

How close I center are you?

45 @ 32

I'm just a smidge outside of center with 500 spine CXLs and 90 grains up front. I'm slightly weak at 10 spot on 15-30 and slightly stiff at 40. Very happy with the tune.

Keep throwing stuff on the wall something will stick ;-)


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Team Montana - we are coming for your quarters ;-)
 

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Okay folks having an issue with my current stringwalking tune.

When shoot with no crawl I get BS hitting in with the fletched at 20.
Shooting with 20m crawl and BS is hitting right with quite a bit of tail kick.
Grant
Forgive me if I'm wrong. I am RH. I've been trying to stringwalk for a while now. When I gap shoot (no crawls) I religiously bare shaft to get them in amongst the fletched. When I stringwalk with long crawls my bare shafts always show weak. I assumed that this was because the shortened lower limb was putting significantly more power into the arrow?
So shouldn't you be using a stiffer arrow to start with, one that bare shafts right with no crawl? Or am I completely missing something as usual?
 

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Barefaced tightropewalker
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When I stringwalk with long crawls my bare shafts always show weak. I assumed that this was because the shortened lower limb was putting significantly more power into the arrow?
It's not the lower limb putting in more power, it's the period of (virtual) 'dry-fire' it gets after the release.

The nock hops up on release as the area from the lower finger to the nock vibrates. The upper limb stops this by pulling up the slack, lifting the nock in the process. Only then does the arrow get a whack up the .... nock. End result is a weakened dynamic spine.

So shouldn't you be using a stiffer arrow to start with, one that bare shafts right with no crawl? Or am I completely missing something as usual?
Yes. You tune to your mid-crawl.

My DL has increased recently and over the past couple of years the limbs I'm using have gone up in efficiency more than poundage.

Result has been very confusing tuning, especially until I realised the DL increase. I didn't realise it as my tuning efforts would have been with a crawl for 18-20m.

Anyhow, all arrows to hand were suddenly weak, even those stiffer shafts bought in advance and awaiting assembly.

After a 'reality check' from our Swedish friend I'm now going to buy 410 Carbon Ones instead of the 600/550/500 I've been trying to get to work.

The advice was that for field the spine should be 1.5 spines heavier than the Easton chart and for 3D the spine should be 2 spines heavier.

Suddenly my massive PO isn't going to be so massive with the extra arrow length and weight.

As a side note:
Yesterday was too windy for any accurate tuning but just messing around with some old Winstorm limbs slightly wound in showed the value of good quality limbs which you take for granted when you are shooting them all the time. I previously used the Winstorms with a 29.75" DL, they are now being pulled with a 31.25" DL (albeit with a crawl). They went heavy quicker than HEX 6 limbs, felt heavier and were a huge amount less efficient. All subjective opinions as the limbs were on different risers and set up differently. You would not want to shoot them once you knew you had a better option.
 

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When you crawl down the string, the bareshaft will gradually move to the right. Thats is because you get a longer "free" acceleration phase for the string where it moves without arrow. That is basically like a dry release until the string turn point arrives around the nock. With a longer crawl, the string will have space and time to accelerate a lot before it starts to move the arrow, and the arrow gets a first very aggressive power stroke that prebends the shaft. When you then get the normal arrow acceleration, it will bend more than if you don´t crawl, just because it reacts to that very strong power stroke in the beginning of the accerelation.

Rule of thumb for arrow choice when you start to stringwalk:
Compared to split finger you need to spine up two shaft sizes.
Compared to 3-under(nock contact) you need to spine up one shaft size.

Edit: Greysides was faster...
 

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Forgive me if I'm wrong. I am RH.
So shouldn't you be using a stiffer arrow to start with, one that bare shafts right with no crawl? Or am I completely missing something as usual?
I think I've confused myself there. I think that should be:

"So shouldn't you be using a stiffer arrow to start with, one that bare shafts left with no crawl?"

Aargh!

Another senior moment.
 

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thumbless stringwalker
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I found that nocking point on Hex6 are very critical.
If NP is too high, 3mm more than the correct, BS hit high and to the left and arrows hit the button.
So I set center shot to the center and then tune for NP. Finally try lateral tuning.
JMHO
Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Matt:

Very slightly outside center with quite hard button. Going further in makes the BS hit with a lot of nock left.

Aiden:

I have a few shorter GT 600 which I'm trying but they are showing very stiff, but I didn't try a full retune for them which may perhaps get me closer to what I'm after.

Martin:

Thanks for the insight. It seems illogical that a shorter power stroke would make the arrow tune weaker but the greater impact at the beginning of the power stroke makes sense.

Beleg:

NP is definitely fairly critical but I've noticed that once I have it correct on the Hex6 it seems they aren't very sensitive to crawl length in the vertical, perhaps that is the vertical stability in play.


I think I will try some of my shorter bareshafts and see what I can get to work. I will aim for a still and low arrow with zero crawl to start with then go from there.

-Grant
 

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I bareshaft test at 20 yards. My point on is 53 yards. From 15-53 my arrow flight is perfect and i aim on the spot. After 55 yards i start to show stiff a tad.. Under 15 i show weak.. However I can fix that with string position or i can also aim 1 arrow shaft width to the side of the spot... I figured i could also learn how to adjust the plunger for each shot.. But to be honest i have a hard enough time remembering crawls at this point. Im very new to this so i partly gave up on tuning this thing.. I have the its good enough attitude right now!

My set up is 45# @27.5, 500 spine arrow cut to 28.5 with 110gr, 1/8 bigger tiller up top, Ultima rest, fivics plunger (Slightly stiff), Nocking point (dont know how to read the square) 5/8's?, Brace height is 8 1/2, Sky Tr7, Mk Mach3 limbs...

Figured i would share my set up in hopes it helps somehow! Now i just need to keep working on learning to shoot!!! haha
 

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Martin:

Thanks for the insight. It seems illogical that a shorter power stroke would make the arrow tune weaker but the greater impact at the beginning of the power stroke makes sense.

-Grant
I don't think you are getting a shorter power stroke because the draw length remains the same. I thought that lowering the release point effectively shortened the lower limb thus making it stronger. I didn't know about the dry fire effect. That is really interesting. Seems to me that perhaps there's a double whammy here. I sometimes think I am beginning to comprehend, and then something new is thrown up. It is all fascinating. At least the dry fire explains the noise.
 

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thumbless stringwalker
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The shot is little more complicated when stringwalking.
Shooting split your draw lenght is almost the same as the power stroke but stringwalking draw length is longer.


JMHO
Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I shortened my arrows by 1.25" and that seems to have improved things a little but I think I need to take some more off. I've got a set which are borderline too short and they are just a little stiff.
Also I'm shooting 80gr points and small vanes, I think that I need to swap in some 100gr points to try and get a bit more stability maybe also going with a longer vane.
When I'm really on with my form they are grouping well but any small imperfection is really hurting me. I've got the plunger set nearly dead center but I think that might get pushed out just a little.

-Grant
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I put the 100gr points in and things seem to be tuning much more logically. I should just realize that I don't do well with light points. I keep trying them to chase speed but everytime I do the tune gets so hard to find.

Was shooting in some really good gusts tonight at 35m and the BS was landing just on the weak side. I might due some preload tuning tomorrow morning once the wind dies.

-Grant
 

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I have some slo-mo video of my stringwalking release....... The effects described by Martin and illustrated by (other) Martin are clear..... Nock rise followed by sudden acceleration and vertical plane bending of the arrow. Just for fun, my nose is whacked as the string goes by as well...........


Ado
 

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Damn, I've been trying to avoid reading this thread as my tune does nothing but bug me. I shoot [email protected] and currently use VAP .600 cut to 28" with 90grn tips. They stay weak all the time but I really don't want less point weight because it starts getting skittish. Reading this I'm thinking that .500 with 90 or 100gr might be the way to go.


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