[Salskov]

I 've been considering the question of "forgiveness" in a bow.

All sorts of different degrees of geometry in limb angle, deflex/reflex, centershot, weight loading - just to name a few - are used to increase "forgiveness".

Yet it seems that the hidden cost of forgiveness is that it allows a greater margin of error in form.

Is it fair to say that a bow built and tuned for forgiveness encourages poor form?

And that a more unforgiving bow - though more challenging - will in the end require a greater mastery of form?

In this sense, then, it would be wiser to choose the more difficult bow to achieve the highest levels of skill.

. . . your thoughts?

Regards,

Salskov

 

[1gr8bldr]

Been thinking about this as well. Looking foward to input

 

[Cyrille]

Aim small... miss small.... It is my belief that first one should work on form with a bow that is easy for the archer to handle. It stands to reason that anyone interested in becoming better at whatever sport/endeavor they choose. They should start off small... I.e. easy and work into it as they become more proficient then move on to something a bit more challenging. Nature Herself provides the pattern... one learns to crawl before one learns to walk.

 

[ivorycollector]

My 58" light weight compact hybrid LB is certainly twitchier and "unforgiving" as compared to my 66/68" weighted & stabilizer Recurve. But I love shooting the compact bow to learn and it certainly complains if I am not up to scratch.

 

[13033]

Kind of along the lines of; "Does a forgiving wife encourage inapproriate behavior?" LOL

 

[Sid]

the one that plays with my head. is that quite often people find a position within a group that satifies thier ambition.
change the group and they settle into the same position. be that 1st or 10th. irrespective of the scores.
take tennis. every now and then a couple of guys take the standards above and beyond. but it does take two that want first place as badly as the other.


very very rarely. does one person excel well beyond thier peers.

so to improve quite often your best to seek the company of better performing people.
human nature is complex.
motivation is conplex.

so forgiving setups can be adapted to by motives and human nature.
less forgiving setups can quite often be mastered by motivation.
making "foregiving" difficult to spot because what is logically forgiving is outdone by determination.

one thing I think that highlights foregiving is what is most certainly not forgiving. and follow that trend and you can see aprrox what is right and not so right

 

[rusty craine]

Only the last 7 years have I really been interested in really competing.

Now lets look at before that. I was interested in putting an arrow at relatively short range thru a chest cavity. I might be leaning out of a tree stand, on a side hill un balanced, shooting twisted as far around as I possible could. A bow with a lot of forgiveness was a nice thing.

For every competition archery you come up with in Texas I can bring ten bow hunters. Include compounds and I can bring 30 to 1.

It is hard for target archers to understand but a 4" group at 15 yards will fill your freezer all day long. Mostly the trad bow hunters are way over bowed any way. A really forgiving bow is a must.

 

[StevenB]

In this sense, then, it would be wiser to choose the more difficult bow to achieve the highest levels of skill.

. . . your thoughts?

My thoughts on this are simple. I use a form bow with lighter draw weight, lighter physical weight and no stabilizers, which gives less forgiveness, and combine with arrows made less forgiving (lower FOC, and less fletching or even bareshaft sometimes).

Then when I go to my hunting bow which is heavier draw, heavier physical weight, has stabilizer, and arrows with high FOC etc. etc. Everything is automatic.

Definitely practicing only with my primary use bow allows form errors to creep in. ... Well, they creep in anyway, but it's much easier to identify the problems early on with a form bow that is less forgiving.

 

[Rasyad]

Interesting thoughts all....

Some folks seem happy enough to fling arrows and are happy with a level of performance set by their natural talent. Some are never satisfied with their shot and have an orientation that can be full of anger and harsh self criticism. Most are somewhere inbetween. We allow ourselves to see our flaws to some degree and choose to work on improving. In archery as in life. The biggest difference I see is how intensily folks engage in learning activities and how informed and effective their training methods and their capicity for focas and concentration.

I think all archers benifit from a well tuned and forgiving bow. As a measure of individual shot perfection I use bare shafts.

Rasyad

 

[Larry Hatfield]

if you are talking about just the bow, one quick way to see the difference in "forgiveness" is to simply move the arrow rest forward and away from the belly of the bow. think you will find that the closer the rest is to the belly edge of the shelf the less forgiving you will find the bow.
for the rest of it, rusty has a good point.

 

[longrifle346]

As a relatively new competitive shooter but a lifelong bowhunter, forgiveness is a very relative term and changes often. It means one thing in my 3D bow when I'm looking for tens and twelves and have to shoot 20 shots in an afternoon shooting foam. There I'll most likely be shooting a 68" longbow, light, fast shafts, and 40 pounds. It takes on an entirely different dimension when I'm looking for that one shot for a heart, lung, and a pass-thru on a whitetail or black bear, kneeling behind a deadfall or leaning out from behind a tree with 50#, heavy arrows, and a recurve that's quite a bit shorter.

 

[Grantmac]

The forgiving bow will hold a tighter group at long range. No matter how perfect the execution feels none of us are really 100% consistent. No matter how forgiving, a bow really won't "forgive" a big mistake on your part.

Shoot close enough and almost any bow will keep the arrows in a tight group.

-Grant

 

[ghoster808]

Only the last 7 years have I really been interested in really competing.

Now lets look at before that. I was interested in putting an arrow at relatively short range thru a chest cavity. I might be leaning out of a tree stand, on a side hill un balanced, shooting twisted as far around as I possible could. A bow with a lot of forgiveness was a nice thing.

For every competition archery you come up with in Texas I can bring ten bow hunters. Include compounds and I can bring 30 to 1.

It is hard for target archers to understand but a 4" group at 15 yards will fill your freezer all day long. Mostly the trad bow hunters are way over bowed any way. A really forgiving bow is a must.

+1, from a hunting perspective, forgiveness is a very high priority trait in bow selection. I only take afield the most forgiving bows I own. So many variables are encountered in the field that I am looking for every bit of advantange and extra benefit a forgiving bow can give me. I know the game animals being shot at, are all for the most forgiving bows

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

[markliep]

Form is never 100% for me - happy to get a break every now & then ... my last shot today was an X but it wasnt my best shot - I came off the string with a slight pluck - I was saved by the firgiveness of bamboo - M

 

[JParanee]

As primarily a bow hunter my main concern in a bow is something that is forgiving of my release and gives me a stable platform to work with

But here is the thing

I have found some very high performance bows to be pretty forgiving

 

[rusty craine]

As primarily a bow hunter my main concern in a bow is something that is forgiving of my release and gives me a stable platform to work with

But here is the thing

I have found some very high performance bows to be pretty forgiving

So true these days. A forgiving bow does not a to be a string follow dog nor draw 70# (at least in most of north america)

 

[JParanee]

So true these days. A forgiving bow does not a to be a string follow dog nor draw 70# (at least in most of north america)

I agree Rusty

You can get some very sweet drawing bows that throw like bows ten pounds heavier than days of old

 

[Salskov]

Thanks to all for their perspectives on this aspect of gear/form. I know that it's a very subjective arena.

Parsing the replies:

Forgiveness would seem to favour degree of consistency (predictable shot placement) rather than absolute sub-MOA accuracy.

In light of the above it seems logical that a hunting rig would have the greater need for forgiveness than a target rig. The hunting environment does not and never will allow "perfect" form in the biomechanical sense.

A target rig will tolerate less forgiveness as a tradeoff for a higher degree of accuracy, and due to the relatively sterile environment of target shooting can take it to extreme levels (a fullblown Olympic rig being the obvious example).

Everybody - hunter or target shooter - needs forgiveness.

This leads in to the devil's advocate in me . . . I'd give a lot to see a top echelon hunter and a top echelon target archer go head to head on a really demanding 3D course. With (unlimited) trad rigs of their choice; i.e. one string and no wheels. Best two out of three would determine the outcome.

Wonder who the winner would be?

Regards,

Salskov

 

[Grantmac]

Two things:

1) A full-blown Oly rig is the most forgiving single string bow you will ever shoot.

2) The target shooter will wipe the course with the hunter every single time unless every target is some sort of novelty nonsense. Of course if you are in the US there is a >95% chance that target shooter also hunts, at least on a 3D course.

-Grant

 

[Sam Dunham]

I like it and am building a 23 inch Pro Vantage with the bottom pocket full of lead. I'm gonna put longs on it and a springy rest and have fun!:shooting: