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jarvisjackrabbit
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Discussion Starter #1
I have been lurking around this board long enough that "lurking" doesn't sound quite creepy enough. I am looking to purchase my first recurve bow and am presently interested particularly in a 24" Cartel Triple riser paired with standard 35# Samick Sage limbs (66" AMO). I would opt for Journey limbs (68" AMO), but there have been reports that those limbs are narrower than the typical Polaris/Sage limbs, and result in some unwanted wiggle room when paired with a Cartel riser.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the 66" setup above would adequately accommodate my ~31" draw length? I've read such overwhelmingly positive remarks about the Carsage that I want to make sure it would work for me before committing to something else, like a 70" Ragim Matrix.

Thank you, you guys (preemptively) rock.
 

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A 66 incher should be fine.
I have a 62 an draw 29" so I doubt you'd have a problem with 66 and 31 draw .
I also have a 68 but I prefer the shorter bow because it feels more like I'm getting into it's sweet spot than with the longer one.

All the best,
John.
 

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jarvisjackrabbit
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3 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the quick response. I think, perhaps, I need to just order this setup and hope for the best. It's pretty inexpensive and should be easy to get in working order.
 

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The Sage and Journey risers are identical. So any riser which takes Sage limbs will also take Journey limbs. For your DL you want the Journey limbs.

-Grant
 

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markliep
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687 Posts
It's going to be a preference & set up specific thing - I started out with shorter 56-66" bows & with a 31" DL & found that d.t. stack & finger pinch - also have large hands & shoot split as well as 3under - I wasn't shooting those lengths as well or as much as longer bows - my preference now is 72" for regular recurve limbs - general rule of thumb I know is if in doubt go for a longer set up for whatever you decide - also keep in mind that with a 31" DL you'll gain 6# & be getting into stack on the dfc of the limb so weights the other factor too - M
 

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Barebow recurve
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944 Posts
You should be OK at 66", but may find later if you get into target archery you are most comfortable at 70" or 72".

Also keep in mind that limbs are rated at 28" draw, and every inch beyond adds 2-3#. Thus, a 31" draw will pull about 6-9# more than marked. Your Sage should pull in the low forties.

Briefly, limbs are rated on a 25" riser. Mediums make a 68" bow, shorts make 66", longs make 70". You can find extra-longs and extra-shorts too. Same draw weight, different lengths. Each size adds or subtracts 2" in bow length.

If put on a different size riser, though, the weight changes. Each riser inch greater than 25" subtracts one pound. Each riser inch less than 25" adds a pound. Thus, limbs rated at 40# on a 25" riser will pull about 44# on a 21" riser. Add a 31" draw to that and you would be pulling 50# plus on what is marked as 40#. That is an extreme example, but shows how you can get an unexpected result. Shorter bows tend to stack more than longer ones too.

Just keep that in mind if you are trying to order a specific weight setup that you have not tried before. Feel free to reach out to this forum for guidance, or ask Lancaster Archery when buying there to confirm.

BTW, be careful if ordering Trad Tech limbs as they are not measured on a 25" riser. More math is required there.
 

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I pull right at 30 and I've been experimenting with riser lengths lately. Shooting extra longs on a 17" riser I have to go to minimum preload to accommodate my draw length......at 31 I'm not sure it would work as all. Put those same limbs on a 21" Black Bear Warf and the result is 68" of "smooth as butta...."
 

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Super Moderator
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As the responses indicate, it would work but might be marginal. I have doubts. My thought is to take that out of the picture and get a 70" set up. A long draw deserves a long bow. I don't draw as far as you and have owned many recurves. My favorites have been 70", though 68" has been OK. A good long recurve will be smooth at full draw and encourage to you to keep your draw long. It might even grow longer.

Incidentally, your draw will produce a long power stroke and tremendous arrow speed from modest draw weight bows. A bow rated 35#@28" will be sufficient for all target and most hunting purposes. You could even go lower. I draw ~30 and have no trouble reaching 80 yard targets with a 33# 70" recurve or a 40# longbow with hunting weight arrows. - lbg
 

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Civil but Disobedient
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I have a long draw. 66 inches just does not feel comfortable to me. I feel like I am hitting a wall near the end of the draw. That may be what many of the short bow shooters are accustomed to, so they don't really notice it. I prefer to shoot a smoother bow, so I stick with 70 inches, and have even gone to 72 with one of my setups. Unless there is a reason to go short, like stomping through brush, or shooting while kneeling, I would go as long as you can, at least 68 inches, but 70 if you have that option. It is much easier to learn on longer bows. The release is not as sensitive when you have a greater string angle on the fingers.

One thing to keep in mind, if you are just starting out and you are drawing 31 inches, unless you are over drawing, your draw length will increase as you learn. That 66 inch bow will really start to stack as you get up to 32 inches.
 

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jarvisjackrabbit
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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you all for the variety of thorough and tremendously helpful responses thus far. Part of my issue is that I will be making as minimal a financial investment as possible at this point (~$150) and will, therefore, have limited options regarding the combination of limbs and riser since the components will be non ILF.

The Ragim Matrix is available up to 70", but I'm not not as confident in the overall quality of the bow as in some other models I've considered. I don't know if the limbs on the Ragim would accept a Fast Flight string either.

The Samick Journey is only 64", but I came across product information which states the bow is designed for a draw of up to 32". It seems like that might be pushing it. I don't know how effectively it could be drawn at that length in spite of the claim. That said, the Samick Sage/Journey has an impeccable record as far as beginners' bows go.

If any of you have read any of the forum pages pertaining to the pairing of a Cartel Triple riser with Samick Sage limbs - or "Carsage" as a nickname - around a few other sites, you will have encountered glowing testimonials regarding performance which exceeds that of considerably more costly setups. The bang-for-buck-ness of this type of bow is what makes it so interesting, but 66" is the max length of the bow when pairing the longest Triple riser with Sage limbs.

Someone on another forum said he spoke with a salesperson at LAS who said the Samick Journey and Sage limbs actually do differ in dimensions other than length even though many customers assume and have been told otherwise. I wonder if I could convince someone at LAS to try to put Journey limbs on a Sage riser and Sage limbs on a Journey riser to get direct confirmation one way or the other if the components fit. I really feel as though I might be okay with the 68" Cartel riser + Journey limbs, but I'd like to avoid having to deal with ill-fitting limb/pocket issues if it is anything that actually even warrants concern.

I'll harass the guys at LAS next week and try to get a definitive answer. If the Cartel setup doesn't work out, I may end up slumming it and pop my recurve cherry with the Ragim so I can feel confident in being able to draw the thing.

You guys are great. Thank you again for sharing your expertise, opinions, and broad-ranging experiences on the subject.
 

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I've literally got a set of Journey limbs on a Sage riser. The risers are 100% identical and the limbs have the same dimensions.

I can put those same limbs on a Cartel riser tomorrow night if you'd like. It's a 62" but I don't think they vary in pocket dimensions.

-Grant
 

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Barebow recurve
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944 Posts
I think you will probably be OK with 66". I have a 28" draw and my main hybrid hunt/target bow is 66". My hunt bow is 62" and my target bow is 68". Just watch out for it pulling more than marked if assembling an ILF rig from components and add 6-9 pounds for your longer draw length. The most common issue we see is archers starting out over-bowed.
 

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Civil but Disobedient
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The key is do you want to be okay with a bow, or do you want a bow that feels good to shoot? A decently constructed 66 inch bow will not be damaged pulling it 31 inches.

Long bows feel better at long draw lengths. I can tell you that as a long draw shooter. If you want something that will make learning easier and be more pleasant to shoot, go long. If you want to take shots where a longer bow will get in the way, go short, but make sure you are getting a short bow that is designed to be drawn long.
 

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Civil but Disobedient
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So lots of opinions here, lots of folks with their own experiences. You need to figure out what you requirements are. First, is cost, since you have a limited budget. With that in mind, is this a starter bow for you, or the last bow you expect to buy? What do you intend to use THIS bow for (now and in the future?).

I have tested a lot of bows. Low end bows stack like crazy at long draws. These bows are often used for teaching and accommodate everyone reasonable well, but they are usually low draw weight where the result of stacking is not noticeable to the strong long draw length archer. Heavier versions of low end bows will be different. You cannot compare the feel to, let's say, the Border setup that Jer has. Border limbs are very high end and are particularly good for long draws, which is why I use them.

So think about what you plan to do with the bow, and make your choice accordingly. Perhaps, you should amplify on this in the thread. And as far as respondents, recommendations should be made based upon these requirements and not personal preference. If you are shooting a style that requires a short bow, then that is what you should get. If you are trying to learn to shoot and figure you will be getting another bow for hunting, then a different type bow would be preferable.
 
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