[Grizz67]

Amen. This must be what I am doing wrong! TP all day, every day. Like a Scott's factory here.

Think your trying too hard ,Dont make archery a chore....its posed to,be fun,right?

 

[Jhaus]

Think your trying too hard ,Dont make archery a chore....its posed to,be fun,right?

Thats what the liars told me when I started!

 

[Grantmac]

If you don't have time to shoot with proper form you don't actually have a shot opportunity, you're just flinging arrows and hoping to make a hit that will eventually recover your game.
The animals deserve better.

 

[pavan]

Draw, hold it, release. i can skip the hold it part it with 25 and under shots with ASL bows 50 and over, but it takes practice to maintain full form control. I must stop and hold it with any bow under 40 pounds and especially short bows and recurves, also I find with lighter bows that i have a better release with a Kantpinch tab versus a stout shooting glove.

 

[pavan]

If you don't have time to shoot with proper form you don't actually have a shot opportunity, you're just flinging arrows and hoping to make a hit that will eventually recover your game.
The animals deserve better.

This preaching has been a common sermon from target based shooters as long as i can remember. Do I trust myself enough to shoot at a bounding deer? Never. Do i trust myself to shoot at a walking calm deer at closer ranges, all day. Do I think that i am going to shoot at a flying pheasant or running rabbit? Every time.

 

[pavan]

Howard Hill stated that when shooting at game it is better to be able to shoot faster than taking one's time. That 'get on with it' frame of mind can prevent one from over deliberating and second guessing. "Too much thinking is bad for concentration." yes, I have seen it often where over bowed people and under practiced people have short releases. if your release is off with a heavier bow, work needs to be done. if that flinched release happens with a lighter weight bow, i advise to not call it TP and over haul everything. Instead, separate that part of your form and concentrate on getting the release you want at a close range and not worry about aiming and everything else. When the bad release is fixed and you are stronger you can try the heavy bow again. Like Hill, I need to spend time regular sessions to maintain my form, independent of long shot aiming. When the shot becomes automatic, then i can get down to long range practice. Today I spent 20 minutes on a smooth draw to a steady release at 10 yards. Then serious practice with a 60 pound bow at 40 yards.

 

[Grantmac]

Howard Hill had animals chained so he could kill them. He's not someone who anyone should hold as an example of ethical hunting.

 

[McDave]

Everything that Howard Hill did he did in the open. He didn't receive any criticism from his contemporaries for being an unethical hunter, that I’m aware of. I mean, he stayed married to the same woman his whole life, and assuming he met the other qualifications, probably could have been elected Pope. He did not meet today's ethical standards. That aside, there is no dispute that he was a superb snap shot with the bow, and probably had more justification taking 50 yard snap shots at deer than most of us do holding and aiming at 25 yards

Edit: well, he might have had to have his marriage annulled to be elected Pope

 

[Grizz67]

He won 146 tournaments in a row...that tells me he knew a thing or two

 

[Sam Dunham]

Heavier limbs can really mess you up at first..

Yes, being overbowed. Too much Weight wrecks the shoulders over time also.

 

[Sam Dunham]

You are describing exactly the robotic rhetoric that is clumsy and mechanical in many hunting situations. With continuous pulling through to anchor there is no collapse. If your static target style is what you need to do, fine. But your way is not the only way, even though certain similarities exists. This early release, although it happens, is not a guaranteed outcome and that is not part of the shooting style and one must work to avoid. You fly with your species and I will fly with mine.
When you jump a pheasant, are you going lockup bone on bone with a shotgun?

I agree a hunter has to shoot fast on a running Rabbit or a Bird on the wing. I also believe that hitting anchor and achieving good T form can be Sped up.
A shot process only takes 5-6 seconds including the draw to take Deer and Elk, Hogs and Javie's.
I don't shoot at running Deer or Elk, I like a good shot angle on relaxed animals.
I've taken rushed shots in my early years and what a mess! Tracking on gimped animals taught me early on to take a good shot or pass.Fortunately I've never gimped an Elk. My mistakes involved WT's I am ashamed to say.
Last count 4 Elk and 58 WT's 1 Mule Deer. Admittedly the first 20 or so Deer were taken with a Compound. I'm a GreenHorn compared to my old Hunting Buddy who had taken 9 Elk and way over 100 WT's. Sadly he passed last month at 76. Guarantee you there are guys on here, maybe Gals who have taken Dozens Elk with Trad. Wish you best of hunting👍

 

[pavan]

My over 20 yard left hand shooting cycle, if I put words to it, would be draw, (rising spread draw last 6" flat) tighter release. My right hand shooting cycle at longer shots is draaaw, pull through, follow through, if I put words to it. Oddly enough i often find that i hold longer on flying birds than 20 and under, which is smooth draw, anchor, release in almost a non-stop motion. I hunt open country, although try to set up for the 20 and under, it does not always work out. I have let many more spooky deer pass by at 15 and under than the deer that i killed at 30 yards that were totally unaware of my presence. I think shot timing and the decision of go or no-go is the hardest thing to learn.

 

[pavan]

Howard Hill had animals chained so he could kill them. He's not someone who anyone should hold as an example of ethical hunting.

Old bull, it was because the cameras used were large and not very mobile, it was a movie. When one considers the hundreds, thousands counting the small game, no one has ever matched him the field. You are one of those that celebrates finding fault anywhere you can.

 

[HawkeyeII]

I think we've all been down this road. It took me 50 years of shooting to come to terms with my limitations. When I did that I became a better archer. My own experience I was shooting to heavy of a bow. I dropped 10lbs pounds and reinvented my shooting style. I started watching target archers and applied their techniques to my hunting archery. I make every arrow count and focus on each aspect of the shot. The hold, focus and pulling through the shot. When I do not adhere to my own rules my shot suffers. I keep my shots close while hunting and practice at longer distances. I practice with the bows I hunt with.

 

[Sam Dunham]

This preaching has been a common sermon from target based shooters as long as i can remember. Do I trust myself enough to shoot at a bounding deer? Never. Do i trust myself to shoot at a walking calm deer at closer ranges, all day. Do I think that i am going to shoot at a flying pheasant or running rabbit? Every time.

"Target based Shooters" would include all of us, Yes?
Or, are you talking about 3D shooters which the targets look like Deer?
Or indoor etc.?
Snap shooters may be shooting at Deer targets also. Snap shooting is used by so called "Instinctive shooters" mostly, agreed?
They may or may not be able to let down?

 

[Grizz67]

How can you not be able to let down? I Dont understand that last statement.

 

[ledflight]

It's a form of target panic.

How can you not be able to let down? I Dont understand that last statement.

 

[McDave]

As I understand it, a snap shooter touching his anchor is the same as some other shooter clicking the clicker, touching the feather to nose, or the subconscious sending a release signal to his brain. At that moment, the arrow is gone. At any point prior to touching anchor, the snap shooter should be able to change his mind and let down; for example, if a deer suddenly turned to face him so he no longer had a clear shot to the vitals. If a snap shooter had committed to the shot, but hadn't yet touched anchor, and couldn't let down because he was too far along to stop, that would be a sign of target panic.

On a slightly different subject, not all snap shooters are instinctive shooters, and vice versa. Howard Hill stated that he was not an instinctive shooter, because he consciously placed his arrow point where he thought it ought to be, albeit without calculating a gap. And yet it is clear from watching his videos that he was a snap shooter.

Rick Welch is an instinctive shooter, because he does not consciously place his arrow point anywhere (how far away is it? Don't know, don't care), although he does notice where it is, and no doubt that information is used by his subconscious to trigger his shot. And yet it is clear from watching him shoot and taking lessons from him that he considers it vitally important to have a 2 second hold, so he is definitely not a snap shooter.

 

[Sam Dunham]

How can you not be able to let down? I Dont understand that last statement.

Snap shooting sometimes causes TP so bad that they have to shoot. Like the guy that had it bad was sure he could draw his bow in the house and aim at the picture window and let down, not!
Not saying all snap shooters have TP, a lot do because they need to shoot faster and it morphs into not even making it to anchor. Did you know Fred Bear had TP? Now I'm sure not all snap shooters have TP, drawing and letting down is good for all of us to do which ingrains control.

 

[Sam Dunham]

As I understand it, a snap shooter touching his anchor is the same as some other shooter clicking the clicker, touching the feather to nose, or the subconscious sending a release signal to his brain. At that moment, the arrow is gone. At any point prior to touching anchor, the snap shooter should be able to change his mind and let down; for example, if a deer suddenly turned to face him so he no longer had a clear shot to the vitals. If a snap shooter had committed to the shot, but hadn't yet touched anchor, and couldn't let down because he was too far along to stop, that would be a sign of target panic.

On a slightly different subject, not all snap shooters are instinctive shooters, and vice versa. Howard Hill stated that he was not an instinctive shooter, because he consciously placed his arrow point where he thought it ought to be, albeit without calculating a gap. And yet it is clear from watching his videos that he was a snap shooter.

Rick Welch is an instinctive shooter, because he does not consciously place his arrow point anywhere (how far away is it? Don't know, don't care), although he does notice where it is, and no doubt that information is used by his subconscious to trigger his shot. And yet it is clear from watching him shoot and taking lessons from him that he considers it vitally important to have a 2 second hold, so he is definitely not a snap shooter.

I shot through the Mayflower course right behind Welch years ago before he lost weight. He teaches to hold and does hold at anchor and aims. I'm guessing he shoots "Gapstinctive" which many would say gaps are automatic from shooting at different yardages for years.