[creeper]

I having issues with the Gold Tip arrows I'm shooting through my 45# Samick Sage .
I'm new to Trad Archery and am trying my hand at instinctive shooting. So as you can guess I miss once and a while, but I'm having a blast shooting, with no "bells and whistles" to worry over like my compound. When I miss they hit a banking behind the target (Dirt and sm. tree roots) and are easily removed.
The issue is my arrows are splitting and splintering from the insert. They are GT Velocity Hunter 300's cut @ 29.5", 5" fletching 125 gr FP.

Any suggestions? (besides hit the target)

 

[Mike S]

Are they flying straight? Seems like an awful stiff arrow for a 45# sage?

 

[Muleman]

X2 what Mike says.Proper spine on arrows,proper brace Ht,and tuned to you're style shooting,also I would try double nocking points.

Good Luck

 

[creeper]

sss

 

[creeper]

Are they flying straight? Seems like an awful stiff arrow for a 45# sage?

I went to an archery shop an these were suggested. should I go for .4oo spline?

 

[creeper]

X2 what Mike says.Proper spine on arrows,proper brace Ht,and tuned to you're style shooting,also I would try double nocking points.

Good Luck

I set the brace height @ lowest recommended 7 1/2 and worked up until bow shot well and was quiet, now set at 8". Set nock 1/2 " high and adjusted until good flight no wobble and hit straight on (when I execute correct anchor and release). I shoot 3 under and have double nock.

 

[Mike S]

I went to an archery shop an these were suggested. should I go for .4oo spline?

When I started shooting a stick bow I started with 45# and the shop sent me out the door with 340 spine arrows. I lost the first deer I shot due to lack of penetration. To describe it so you can easily visualize it...stiff ( or weak) arrows fly through the air sideways. They may hit where you intend, but they are still flying with the rear of the arrow out of line with the tip.

If they are flying sideways like that it is possible to clip something with just the tip, or rearward portion of the shaft and arrows are not designed to take an offset impact. I broke 3-5 arrows clear in half when the tip barely missed the edge of a 3D target, but made contact just in front of the fletchings. The impact tailwhipped them right in half lol. I cannot say it is definitely what's happening in your case, but it would definitely contribute.

Its different for each of us because of the other variables mentioned above...but with one of my bows at about 52-54lbs I shoot full length 400's with 100 grain brass inserts, and 125 grain tips. For ME they are tuned very well.

If you want to see yourself what we are talking about strip the feathers off of one shaft with a razor. If you have a very safe area to shoot...go ahead and shoot a couple fletched, and then shoot the bare shaft and watch it in flight. If they are as stiff as I think for your setup I'll guess it will be like a right handed pitcher throwing a curve ball..arrow will swoop down and left...opposite for a lefty.

 

[John in NZ]

Use a two part epoxy to put your inserts in.
Also,you should be shooting a .500 from your bow.
Carbons are designed an made with compounds in mind,not stringbows.
Most shops don't know squat about stringbows, so will simply sell you what they think will suit what they do know about,and that's a big mistake.
What everybody say's about your arrow hitting the target or the bank flying sideways is correct but if your getting splitting from the front of a GT it will most probably be because the insert is being driven back on impact.
Before you put the insert in the arrow make sure you have cleaned the first inch or so inside the shaft so your glue takes hold properly.
I use white spirits because it will clean out any release agent the manufacturer may of used and it doesn't leave a residue of it's own.

Good luck,
John.

 

[j-san]

Footing your shafts will greatly increase their durability. I shoot full length 30" Gold Tip 3555 (500 spine) with 125gr. points out of a 45# recurve. A 2" section of aluminum shaft at the front and a 1cm section at the nock end all but guarantees a super tough shaft.

 

[OsageAssassin]

Footing your shafts will greatly increase their durability. I shoot full length 30" Gold Tip 3555 (500 spine) with 125gr. points out of a 45# recurve. A 2" section of aluminum shaft at the front and a 1cm section at the nock end all but guarantees a super tough shaft.

That sir, is an excellent idea,

"A whisper, then a thud...the animal falls to the mud"

 

[creeper]

When I started shooting a stick bow I started with 45# and the shop sent me out the door with 340 spine arrows. I lost the first deer I shot due to lack of penetration. To describe it so you can easily visualize it...stiff ( or weak) arrows fly through the air sideways. They may hit where you intend, but they are still flying with the rear of the arrow out of line with the tip.

If they are flying sideways like that it is possible to clip something with just the tip, or rearward portion of the shaft and arrows are not designed to take an offset impact. I broke 3-5 arrows clear in half when the tip barely missed the edge of a 3D target, but made contact just in front of the fletchings. The impact tailwhipped them right in half lol. I cannot say it is definitely what's happening in your case, but it would definitely contribute.

Its different for each of us because of the other variables mentioned above...but with one of my bows at about 52-54lbs I shoot full length 400's with 100 grain brass inserts, and 125 grain tips. For ME they are tuned very well.

If you want to see yourself what we are talking about strip the feathers off of one shaft with a razor. If you have a very safe area to shoot...go ahead and shoot a couple fletched, and then shoot the bare shaft and watch it in flight. If they are as stiff as I think for your setup I'll guess it will be like a right handed pitcher throwing a curve ball..arrow will swoop down and left...opposite for a lefty.

Thanks Mike S, I do shoot lefty and I took your advice and stripped the fletching off one of my arrows. I then shot @ 5, 10, 15 yds and although my grouping is not all that great I did notice the bare shaft hit to the right and tailed to the left when in the target. So if I'm correct in assuming, if I put heavier FP's on that will weaken the spine? What would you suggest?

 

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Velocity Hunters are more of a target grade lightweight shaft (they are identical to the GT Ultralites, they just put a different sticker on them). They are not as strong as the heavier shafts like the GT Expedition Hunter, or better yet the Traditional series.

And I agree that footing is a good option regardless of the shaft.

 

[creeper]

Use a two part epoxy to put your inserts in.
Also,you should be shooting a .500 from your bow.
Carbons are designed an made with compounds in mind,not stringbows.
Most shops don't know squat about stringbows, so will simply sell you what they think will suit what they do know about,and that's a big mistake.
What everybody say's about your arrow hitting the target or the bank flying sideways is correct but if your getting splitting from the front of a GT it will most probably be because the insert is being driven back on impact.
Before you put the insert in the arrow make sure you have cleaned the first inch or so inside the shaft so your glue takes hold properly.
I use white spirits because it will clean out any release agent the manufacturer may of used and it doesn't leave a residue of it's own.

Good luck,
John.

Thank you for responding. I talked to the gentleman who sold me the arrows and he admitted that he didn't know much about Traditional shooting. He cut to length and installed the inserts for me. Unfortunately I am stuck with the arrows as he will not take them back. I still have 6 new ones left so gonna ask around if anyone wants a discounted 1/2 dz or can swap for what I need.

 

[longrifle346]

j-san has the plan, I'm trying to find some aluminum shafts with the right inside diameter to foot some CE CX100s right now. Great flying shaft , tunes well for all of my bows but wouldn't ya know it..they were discontinued a couple of years back. I bought the last remaining 3 dozen that I know of in existence and I really need to protect them. The ends are not particularly receptive to hitting boards or stumps.....

 

[wstrayer]

I just picked up some GT Kinetics in .500 spine. Heavier weight and thinner diameter make for a more durable arrow. Time will tell. For what it is worth, I have been shooting GT Expedition Hunters (.400) full length (32") with 145 grain tips. I am shooting 48# @29". I have yet to break one.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks Mike S, I do shoot lefty and I took your advice and stripped the fletching off one of my arrows. I then shot @ 5, 10, 15 yds and although my grouping is not all that great I did notice the bare shaft hit to the right and tailed to the left when in the target. So if I'm correct in assuming, if I put heavier FP's on that will weaken the spine? What would you suggest?

Yes you could go with a much heavier point, but personally I would change arrows for that particular bow. For one of my hunting setups I shoot about 60# and I shoot ICS bowhunter 340's full length( 31") and require 100 grain brass inserts and 125 grain tips to get it where I want it. For a 45# setup with no added weight I agree with the suggestion of 500 spine and 125 tip to start.You will find that not every bow of equal poundage likes the same exact arrow setup, so you never know. You may need 145 gr tips...either way you should be in the ballpark

The amount of weight you might need to weaken the 300 spine would really cause a drop off past 20 yds in my opinion. I like to shoot full length arrows one spine too stiff and then tune with tip weight...but thats ME. I keep field points in 100,125,145, and 175 grains on hand when I start tuning.

Keep us posted on how you are making out bud..

 

[creeper]

Yes you could go with a much heavier point, but personally I would change arrows for that particular bow. For one of my hunting setups I shoot about 60# and I shoot ICS bowhunter 340's full length( 31") and require 100 grain brass inserts and 125 grain tips to get it where I want it. For a 45# setup with no added weight I agree with the suggestion of 500 spine and 125 tip to start.You will find that not every bow of equal poundage likes the same exact arrow setup, so you never know. You may need 145 gr tips...either way you should be in the ballpark

The amount of weight you might need to weaken the 300 spine would really cause a drop off past 20 yds in my opinion. I like to shoot full length arrows one spine too stiff and then tune with tip weight...but thats ME. I keep field points in 100,125,145, and 175 grains on hand when I start tuning.

Keep us posted on how you are making out bud..

Mike S.
I just wanted to update you. I received an e-mail from GT in response to one I had sent them in regards to the arrow issues I was having. (Before I discovered TradTalk). I had included the stats on my Bow and the arrows I was shooting. They responded saying it was probably due to scratching and hitting pebbles/roots in the bank. They never mentioned my arrows were to stiff spine. THANK YOU TRADTALK! Based on the info I received here, I picked up some GT traditional 3555 30" length from a fellow that shoots traditional competitively in the area. They shoot GREAT! No broken or damaged ones even though a couple have visited the bank. I am very happy and having fun!!
Thank you all for the advice.

 

[Mike S]

Stiff arrows alone do not necessarily mean they are going to break...so their response isn't misleading. I was just pointing out that your setup was probably far out of tune and could contribute to problems.

If you intend on keeping a less forgiving backstop like the rocks and roots J-San showed you how to toughen up arrows by footing them in the pics he posted. If you do, take into account the weight you are adding.

Heck, I should make myself some footed arrows as well :cheers:

 

[creeper]

Footing your shafts will greatly increase their durability. I shoot full length 30" Gold Tip 3555 (500 spine) with 125gr. points out of a 45# recurve. A 2" section of aluminum shaft at the front and a 1cm section at the nock end all but guarantees a super tough shaft.

Thanks J-San, I looked up "footing an arrow" as I had no idea how to do it. I have gotten better at keeping good groups by working on form and shooting blank bale. I had some old 2117 game getters and footed 6 3555 GT trad's They are working great. Now I'm not so nervous about missing longer shots or stump shooting.

 

[Tom M]

I foot some of my carbons as well. I am working on a doz. Axis shafts right now. I have found about 1in of footing works for me. I also chamfer the back edge of the foot to make it easier to pull arrow. The small diameter Axis shafts penetrate into the targets deeper.