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Bow scales questions

505 views 15 replies 6 participants last post by  CD  
#1 ·
I've been building selfbows for about a year now, and I've come up against some questions about bow scales, and one very important question: "Is the method I'm using to determine the draw weight of a bow correct?"

When I was equipping my shop to build selfbows, I put together a tillering board that went thru a few iterations before I was somewhat satisfied with it. It's similar to some I've seen other people use, so I was pretty confident with what I was doing. But now, I'm questioning it, and would like some outside input from the folks on TradTalk.

I've been using a Taylor spring scale rigged up on my tillering board, with a rope and handle that places the scale on the string and when I pull down on it, I can see how many pounds of pressure there is at particular draw lengths. I don't draw the bow over the desired weight as the tillering progresses to desired draw length, and it seems to work pretty well.

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I purchased one of the digital hand held archery draw weight scales, but when drawing bows with it and a marked arrow to my draw length of 24.5", the digital scale gave a reading that was about 9 lbs heavier than what my tillering board spring scale was showing. That was the same with four or five other bows.

I tested my spring scale with items of a known weight that I'd individually weighed on my kitchen digital scale and then added up, then placed in a bucket (right at 25 pounds of stuff, including the bucket.) The spring scale showed a weight of 25 pounds. I also weighed the 25 pounds of stuff in the bucket on my bathroom digital scale, and it agreed.

SO! I sent it back and got a refund. Ordered another hand-held scale of a different brand that had a readout screen that looked a bit different, and it just showed up. Same issue, but now my bows are registering at 10 pounds heavier draw weight with this scale.

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I re-checked the spring scale against a bucket of 30 lbs 4 oz of items, including the bucket. It was spot on, as was the bathroom scale. Oddly enough, I lifted the bucket with the archery scale, and it was also spot on when checking the bucket weight.

But, when I double checked draw weight of my favorite Osage bow on the tillering board setup, it showed a draw weight of 43 lbs at 24.5", as usual. The digital hand-held archery scale measured it several times at 53 pounds and change at the 24.5" draw length.

The spring scale isn't getting any mechanical advantage by the pulley in the tillering board setup. It's attached directly to the bow string and the rope pulls straight down on the scale and the string/bow, so to my mind, should be giving me a true draw weight reading.

What am I missing?
 
#2 ·
I have one of those little handheld scales. I would consider those style scales more “for reference.”

With the bathroom scale, balance beam, or grocery store scale. You’re making a static weight measurement. When you are pulling or even holding the scale there is more at play than just the weight.

With mine, I noticed that the amount of pressure you put on the top or bottom of the handle changes the reading. It’s kind of like a torque wrench reading. The handle is a lever. If you choke up or down your reading will be skewed.

Also the handhelds have a bunch of different settings and need to zero when you turn them on etc. May not have had a manual, but check it again if it did. You may be missing a zeroing or doing something to throw it off.

I’d be willing to bet if you zeroed that handheld and then hung it upside down with a rope and two loops and then hung your bucket on it. You would probably get a more accurate reading.

Try varying your hand pressure to see what happens. You may be able to get a reasonable reference reading out of that thing.
 
#3 ·
You are also measuring the weight of the spring scale the way you have set up the tillering board. Rig something up where the rope supports the weight of the scales and the only force applied to the scale hook is the bow. My bow scale is set up horizontal so that the weight of the scale is not an issue.
 
#5 ·
The spring scale on the tillering board only weights 2lbs 2oz, and is zeroed to compensate for the weight of the rope. I can’t wrap my mind around how that would make a 9-10 pound difference in weight, or how it would be off that much to show the weight lighter than the hand-held.
 
#10 ·
I used both scales on the tillering tree, but there are differences in the weight result when the bow in on the tree or when in my hand while using the hand-held scale. The weight shows several pounds heavier while holding the bow in my hand. I can't figure that part out.

Before I send it back, I'm inclined to test all my bows to see if I can get a constant weight differential and then use that to calculate the real weight of the bow when I use the scale in my hand. It would be convenient to have a hand-held...
 
#9 · (Edited)
Well, I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, I found part of the problem... During the last re-do of my tillering board setup, I marked the lines incorrectly, and I was measuring my bows 1 inch shy of intended draw length. So that explains why I struggle a bit to pull the heavier ones! (weight at 24.5" was actually the weight at 23.5"

My 43lb Osage "Bo'Senior" Cherokee Hunting bow is actually my 48lb Osage, and my 35lb lb Osage "Bo'Junior" Cherokee Hunting bow is actually my 39lb Osage. The hickory bows were also 4-5 pounds heavier than I thought. Looks like I have some apologies to make to my buddies, and draw weights to adjust...

But! While the hand-held still doesn't agree with the Spring Scale by several pounds, the disparity is probably just an accuracy issue due to cheap electronics in those hand-held models. I'm gonna still trust the spring scale until proven wrong since it has tested to be accurate... more testing is in order with more weight to make sure it doesn't go askew while weighing 40-50 pounds. It's accurate to 30, so we'll see what happens with more pounds.

Something else I noticed with some extra testing... The weight the hand-held would register pulling down on a bow string while on the tillering board would register about 2.5 lbs heavier than the spring scale, but it would register about 5-6 pounds heavier when I drew the bow with it in my hands with an (accurately :unsure:) marked arrow. It's off enough where I'm probably going to send this one back, too. If it's that far off, I don't have much use for it.

*Sorry.... I wrote this post yesterday afternoon, but forgot to hit "Post Reply")
 
#12 ·
Terrier, I'll assume your digital scale is set in the peak mode, and not the continuous mode.

Have you an unopened ~ 40 lb. bag of water softener salt that has a plastic handle at the top of the bag? If so, fasten a small cord loop to the handle, hook your digital scale to the cord and weigh the bag. When weighing, ensure the scale is held in your hand(s), perpendicular to the cord and not tilted/skewed at any angle. The load cell inside the scale needs to 'see' a weight 90° perpendicular to it, and it needs to have a weight smoothly & steadily applied.

Do this procedure 3, 4 times and see if the numbers are all about the same. Then weigh the salt bag with your analogue scale, hung from a hook for wall clearance. Compare your numbers & let us know your findings (y).
 
#14 ·
@CD ( & @Grizz67 )

I had two 20lb bags of kitty litter that I trussed up together with some 550 cord, and thereafter got an education! Thanks for suggesting this test. It was certainly an eye opener.

The first test was with the Spring Scale:
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40 lbs, on the nose.

Second test was with the hand-held scale, and ensuring that I held it dead flat as I picked up the bags:
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Well, looky there... I didn't expect that result!

Third Test, tilting the hand-held scale slightly toward the display side:
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Hmmmm... Not quite as much differential as I was previously seeing when pulling on bows, but still... revealing...

And Test Four, tilting the hand-held scale away from the display:
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Wow! Big difference...

I guess this solves a lot of the mysteries about the hand-held scale. Now all I gotta do is learn how to smoothly pull a bow with it and stay flat to the pull whilst still being able to see when the marker tape on the arrow reaches the back of the bow... Maybe a flag on the tape will help with that.

Thanks again for the suggestion!
 
#16 ·
@CD ( & @Grizz67 )
...I guess this solves a lot of the mysteries about the hand-held scale. Now all I gotta do is learn how to smoothly pull a bow with it and stay flat to the pull whilst still being able to see when the marker tape on the arrow reaches the back of the bow... Maybe a flag on the tape will help with that. Thanks again for the suggestion!
Terrier - Oh good, I'm glad it worked out for you. My hand-held digital scale is a quirky bugger too, and it taught me to have any load placed straightaway from it.
 
#15 ·
thanks for this feedback.....good to know.
I use an old Rubbermaid/Pelouze spring scale on my draw board LAID HORIZONTAL across saw horses.
I might try it vertically to see if there is a variation.
another thing for another day.