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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm left handed and I've always had a degree of left/right inconsistency.
At 20 yards I can at times be very good at placing every arrow 1" to the right of my 2" target in a nice tight group, but of course groups mean very little if their not right on the mark.
As the distances stretch so does the amount of right error, to the extent that at 35 yards I will drill two shots and then put the last one completely off the target which is about 20" wide.
If I try to compensate for it by aiming off, almost every time I will hit exactly where I aimed,,,so much for compensation.
I 've tried every way I can think of to hold the bow.
Most things that don't induce torque will last a day or so an then I'm back to shooting the same old way.
This is not such a bad thing in 3D because the first arrow is usually the best one, but in field archery it's the certain death of what could of been a great round.
Because I'm still very much in this rebuilding stage I'm trying a lot of different things just to find what works best for me, but my release has never given me a problem so I haven't really looked at that.
My arrows are tuned to the bow, the tiller is as close to perfect as I'll ever get it, the bow sits dead in the hand on release,it's very quiet and my vertical error over differing ranges is pretty good.
I've had my over all form checked over and approved of by a very successful coach and I tend to know myself what I've done if I mess up in most of the recognised ways.
But, there's two things I've never done much of, one is blind/blank bale drills, the other is shooting groups.
The "incorrect" thinking behind this has always been that one good arrow is all I need, shooting groups just destroys arrows, and blank bale work just seems kind or boring.
So three days ago and in the spirit of trying new things I set up my warm up target that has never had an aiming point on it to eye/shoulder height and began practicing my release at about 5 feet from the target with my eyes closed.
Two shots in and I suddenly realise that this feels very good but it is not how my release feels when I'm shooting with my eyes open.
There's this saying I've read which is used in Traditional Korean archery training that goes something like "Always keep more power in your string hand than in your bow hand".
I think that in Western archery this is just referred to as "Back Tension".
Anyway, over the last two days I've been using the blank bale before and after each shooting session, concentrating on really applying more back tension and the right error now only shows on my targets when I drift back into my old release style.
I'm also working at maintaining the new release by counting down to release on both the bale and on the targets.
So as I'm addressing the target I'm still checking through my elements of form,then settling into full draw, establishing my aim, and then counting down 1 2 3 release.
Like I said, always trying new things at this stage, but this one is looking like a keeper because after 3 days it's still working.
I guess most of you guys knew this already, but for me it's been real light at the end of the tunnel thing, and a further step up.

Cheers,
John.
 

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Not sure how your bow is tuned, if it's not hitting where your pointing it? Also counting down/up and then releasing is begging for TP.
 

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Why what? I don't consider my bow tuned till the bare shafts hit where I'm pointing it.
As for the release there should be no conscious thought of loosing the arrow. The cleanest release is a suprise release. If your counting down, your anticipating when your going to release the arrow. If your counting down as a method to relax prior to starting to pull through, then that is different.
 

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I started using Joel Turner's tip of fletching my arrows so that when I'm at the peak of expansion and the string is almost to the point of being ripped from my fingers the tip of the fletching makes contact with the tip of my nose. It's almost like shooting with a clicker. It made a world of difference in my release and my accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Why what? I don't consider my bow tuned till the bare shafts hit where I'm pointing it.
As for the release there should be no conscious thought of loosing the arrow. The cleanest release is a suprise release. If your counting down, your anticipating when your going to release the arrow. If your counting down as a method to relax prior to starting to pull through, then that is different.
The bow is as I said, very well tuned.
The problem has been around since day one which was sometime in 1967 or 1970 depending on how I look at my archery development.
1967 was when I started playing with bows,1970 was when I started shooting,,just a mind set thing.
I'm counting down now to disassociate the physical act of drawing and aiming the bow from the mental act of initiating the release.
Just another mind set thing that will pass as I reprogram the release to auto mode if you like.
I'm always aware of the possible issue of TP and I do the Drills explained by Jay Kidwell to prevent that now.

Thanks for the input.
John.
 

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Your arrows are a tad stiff unless you pull through expansion. You might cut the next batch a tad longer or add weight to the tips or,,,,get a foremaster or make you one a work on expansion. If you change tabs around or change from a glove to tab that can affect spine too. Kidwell has a good book but better yet is "Never stop pulling" Go bro!
 

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John,

I have found that my left/right errors are almost entirely back tension/consistent transfer and expansion issues. Your grip can have an affect as you noted, but once you have ruled that out then I look at the back tension and it sounds like that is what you are finding as well. One good tool you could try is using a clicker. This is a very good training device to ensure your anchor, transfer and expansion are consistent. If you are still having trouble, then look where the string blur is as that will have a big impact as well.

Alan
 

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I was having some thing close to yourself. I read on another's thread that "low anchor, high grip. High anchor, low grip." So today I took off the grip and raised the nock. Bingo, no more lefts or rights. I think want was happening was I wasn't getting the bow shoulder lowered and that caused the inconsistent follow-thru.
Dan
 

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The bow is as I said, very well tuned.
The problem has been around since day one which was sometime in 1967 or 1970 depending on how I look at my archery development.
1967 was when I started playing with bows,1970 was when I started shooting,,just a mind set thing.
I'm counting down now to disassociate the physical act of drawing and aiming the bow from the mental act of initiating the release.
Just another mind set thing that will pass as I reprogram the release to auto mode if you like.
I'm always aware of the possible issue of TP and I do the Drills explained by Jay Kidwell to prevent that now.

Thanks for the input.
John.
John, just as a test close your non-dominant eye for a few ends. If I don't close my non-dominate eye it moves my group over an inch or two
 

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John, do you use a wrist or finger sling?
My take on bow hand is that it functions solely as a fulcrum and exerts no influence. It is just a pivot point for the bow. When the bow arm/hand is solid and immobile, it allows the bow to execute the shot unimpeded.
Then of course there is the effect of follow through or, the lack of it.
Follow through extends mentally and physically through the end of the shot until the arrow strikes the mark. Leaving out this necessary step, is certain to result in a number of misses. Unfortunately, follow through is more easily demonstrated than described.
Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
John,

I have found that my left/right errors are almost entirely back tension/consistent transfer and expansion issues. Your grip can have an affect as you noted, but once you have ruled that out then I look at the back tension and it sounds like that is what you are finding as well. One good tool you could try is using a clicker. This is a very good training device to ensure your anchor, transfer and expansion are consistent. If you are still having trouble, then look where the string blur is as that will have a big impact as well.

Alan
If what I'm doing now doesn't stick I may very well try a clicker.

Thanks Alan.
John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was having some thing close to yourself. I read on another's thread that "low anchor, high grip. High anchor, low grip." So today I took off the grip and raised the nock. Bingo, no more lefts or rights. I think want was happening was I wasn't getting the bow shoulder lowered and that caused the inconsistent follow-thru.
Dan
I'm half decided right now weather to buy a high grip for my bow because my old Hoyt has a high grip and it's the bow I've done best in competition with.
My anchor is my index finger in the corner of my mouth with a feather touching my nose, although sometimes I do forget about the feather and don't realise for a few shots before I bring it back.
I'm still not totally convinced about that feather thing but I'm working on it.
Thanks for that, something to look into no doubt.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
John, just as a test close your non-dominant eye for a few ends. If I don't close my non-dominate eye it moves my group over an inch or two
Rusty I often do that on longer shots past my point on distance and it does work.
I haven't made a habit of it simply because I'm not really sure if I should be doing it, or if it's something that covers up a fault I could be addressing in another way.

The funny thing is now that you mention it, is that I shot right handed for years before I was forced to change hands as I got older and started to get a bit of astigmatism and could no longer over ride my dominant eye.
So I guess my non dominant eye could still be playing some part.

I can't even shoot a shot gun right handed to save myself today even though I did ok before my eyes got old.
And I can't shoot one left handed because I broke my left collar bone and damaged my left shoulder in a motorcycle crash about 20 years ago.
Today even the thought of using a shotgun left handed makes me cringe,so the local ducks are pretty safe from me,,,LOL.

Cheers,
John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
John, do you use a wrist or finger sling?
My take on bow hand is that it functions solely as a fulcrum and exerts no influence. It is just a pivot point for the bow. When the bow arm/hand is solid and immobile, it allows the bow to execute the shot unimpeded.
Then of course there is the effect of follow through or, the lack of it.
Follow through extends mentally and physically through the end of the shot until the arrow strikes the mark. Leaving out this necessary step, is certain to result in a number of misses. Unfortunately, follow through is more easily demonstrated than described.
Any thoughts?
I use a wrist sling.
How you describe the bow hand is how I look at it myself and I'm pretty convinced right now that my back tension and the resulting follow through is the main issue I need to work on.
I do have a copy of Larry Wises book "Core Archery" which explains it very well, but the way he explains it is bit high tech for me and I had a hard time fully understanding it all until I read that bit about traditional Korean archery training, and then it all dropped into place so I'm now on this path to improvement.
So far it's only been three days but I am seeing a marked improvement on my home course and I'm trying to ingrain it on my blank bale with blind repetition.
I have a 10 target course from 10 too 40 yards at home that I only score hits into the 2" centre spots on.
That's one point for a good shot.
Anything else I count as a complete miss.
I shoot it from both directions to give myself a 20 target round and I've improved my best score from a nine to a 12 over the last three days.
Most of those misses are so close to the line I could kick myself, but I'm keeping in mind the 3D game I'm practicing for so I'm intentionally trying to make it harder at home than it's going to be on the day I step up to the peg again.

Thanks for your comments,
John.
 

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If you want to try a low grip.... will the grip come off the riser, shoot it bare or build it up a little. If you like it then you know what you've to do. If it's a riser that takes the Avalon grip then new grips can be bought.
 
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