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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm having some issues with my Samick Sage. At 10 yards, the bareshafts are pretty good. But out at 20 yards, they plow into the ground a foot or two in front of my bag. Left/right is ok, just plummets before hitting the bag. That said, I've bareshaft tuned all the other 6 recurves I have and they all hit right around where the fletched arrows are hitting. I am shooting off the shelf and I've tried running the nock up and down, even to the extremes. I knock my arrow under the nock and I've had the nock all the way to flat level and up to 1" high and no matter what, it still digs in. It seems to be closest about 3/8" high but still probably a foot low of the fletched arrows. And I'm getting contact on my hand at that height. Is it possible it just hates being shot off the shelf? Seemed ok off a rest but I didn't bareshaft it that way.
 

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Bart Harmeling
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Sometimes the nock will slide down the bow string on release. I bounces off the shelf and flies nock high. A second nock point on your string positioned below your arrow nock will prevent this. Masking tape makes a good temporary nock point if you want to test it out. Could be you're already using a second nock point. Thought I'd mention it as a possible fix.
 

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www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning will solve all your problems. I might add that the broadhead tuning at the end is second to none.

Two nocking points is a good idea, but with the nocking point too low the rear of the shaft can still hit the shelf, making it kick up an look too high. YOur problem is figuring out if the shaft hit the shelf making it look too high or it's too high.

Look at Fender Archery and go to the first picture with arrows in the target. It's a picture of a nocking point too low. Look at the bare shafts - THE NOCK IS BELOW THE POINT OF THE ARROW. If you see the nock above the points on the bare shaft - it hit the shelf and kicked up. If you get nock below point, you're very close - move nocking point up one strand of serving and shoot again. You probably won't see this.

Start at 20 yards with nocking point high. Move it down in small increments. I like to use tie on nocking points and I leave the tag ends long so I can tighten the as needed. With the tie ons you can twist them up or down as need.

Bowmania
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have a nock on top and below the arrow. They're served on so i can adjust them and they are not moving, i did double check that. At least not without me spinning them up and down. The measurement i took in the first comment was from the bottom of the top nock.
I'd rather not go back to a rest but it's kind of looking like that is what this bow wants. I'm trying to convert everything to shoot off the shelf just for ease and simplicity but this booger is not cooperating
 

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If your hitting the target at 10 yards with reasonably good bare shaft flight but at 20 they are plowing the ground, I would think it’s your aim no? No offense of course.
 

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Let's start off with you telling us the bows poundage at your draw length and what arrows and how you have them set up fletch, length, and point weight.

Flat shelved risers should be shot off a rest in my un-asked for opinion. Lots of them can be easily converted to a vertical and horizontal radius with a file and sandpaper. Way too much contact on a flat shelf.
 

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Haybale Hunter
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Aim higher
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's a 30# Samick Sage. I did build up the rest slightly with some putty before adding the bearhair rest. It's maybe 2-3mm at most directly above the innermost part of the grip. Arrows are full length Vintage 400's with 150g tips. According to BE's charts, I'm directly in the 400 spine range. It's a 30# bow but with my draw it comes out to 34.8# when I checked it on my bow scale.

My aim with the fletched arrows is dead on. I would have to add a good deal of gap to compensate for the drop and it shoots nock point high when it hits the target. Which makes me think it's hitting the rest upon release but I've walked that stupid arrow up and down the string to no avail. I've bareshaft tuned my Grizzly, Kmag, Super K, RWH, Gull and Cobra II and none of them shoot funny. They all tuned up well and all are shooting off the rest so it makes me think it's something with the bow I'm not getting right.
 

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I know the tiller is non-adjustable on the Sage, but on your particular bow, what is it? Also, are you shooting 3 fingers under or split finger? Confirming your fletched arrows have feathers or vanes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I know the tiller is non-adjustable on the Sage, but on your particular bow, what is it? Also, are you shooting 3 fingers under or split finger? Confirming your fletched arrows have feathers or vanes?
I'm shooting 3 under, feathered Vintage BE 400's. Not sure the tiller but I'll check this morning.
 

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Thats a lot of arrow for a 35# bow. Have you played around with the spine calculator on 3rivers website. I plugged in some of the info you provided with some of the smaller things guessed at. Shows arrow is too stiff for that weight bow. The samick sage is listed in their bow list so plug in the numbers you know and see what happens. It is at the bottom of the page under discover more tab. Arrows may just be dropping fast as the bow may be struggling to throw them at speed. Just spitballing here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thats a lot of arrow for a 35# bow. Have you played around with the spine calculator on 3rivers website. I plugged in some of the info you provided with some of the smaller things guessed at. Shows arrow is too stiff for that weight bow. The samick sage is listed in their bow list so plug in the numbers you know and see what happens. It is at the bottom of the page under discover more tab. Arrows may just be dropping fast as the bow may be struggling to throw them at speed. Just spitballing here.
Yeah, I tried that. Bow was 42.7, arrow was 44.1 but I noticed they only calculate the arrow to 496g with what I'm running but when I actually weight them, they come out to 520g. When I try manipulating the arrow to get to that weight, I usually come within 1-2 points of what the bow comes out to.
 

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Man, you beat me to it (joedirt199).

400's are going to be way too stiff for your bow. With 125g points I had ok flight with 600's and 35lb limbs on the Sage riser. Better with 700's and the same points.

Shooting stiff arrows can work, but they are not forgiving of even small errors. If you have any kind of problem with your setup it is sure to show.

Using a rest will help. I used a cheap screw in plastic rest when I had that riser.
 

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You would be better with 500 spine shaft and I would 2 nock points on string with a 1 mm gap for the nock to move especially if your shooting 3 under and also a cheap stick on rest would work or you can radious the shelf with a cut straw or piece of leather under the rest material and leave a small gap for feather to shoot thru
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Man, you beat me to it.

400's are going to be way too stiff for your bow. With 125g points I had ok flight with 600's and 35lb limbs on the Sage riser. Better with 700's and the same points.

Shooting stiff arrows can work, but they are not forgiving of even small errors. If you have any kind of problem with your setup it is sure to show.

Using a rest will help. I used a cheap screw in plastic rest when I had that riser.
I mainly use it to work on form and shot process as I'm pretty new to trad shooting. Been a compound guy for a good while but got bored so giving this a whirl. It's my least sentimental bow and lowest poundage so it gets the nod for practice work. All my others are 60's and 70's vintage stuff I enjoy shooting but don't want to toss a thousand arrows through per month. lol. I really wanted to keep it on the shelf so it mimics all my other bows rather than have it the odd man out if at all possible. But if it comes down to it and that's what has to happen then I'll toss the rest back on I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I was under the impression that spine throws left/right. These are very vertical. I did try 100g tips in place of the 150's but then it started shooting to the left and down so I deduced the spine at that point was too stiff and the 150's seem to get it back center again.
 

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I was under the impression that spine throws left/right. These are very vertical. I did try 100g tips in place of the 150's but then it started shooting to the left and down so I deduced the spine at that point was too stiff and the 150's seem to get it back center again.
Spine is left/right if the nock point is in the right spot.

I was shooting my Spectra warf a few weeks back with arrows that are far too stiff (700's on 20lb limbs). The arrows were spinning like pinwheels for the first 2 ends. My first adjustment was nock height. By the end of the session I was getting true flight out to 30yds with 10" groups. Not my best shooting, but a real test for form, and a really fun day at the range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the help guys. Going to stop by the store and pick up a couple 600's and give them a shot. I wouldn't think it could be spine but seems like the general consensus and can't hurt anything to try at least. My local shop only carries 600 and 400's so we'll see. :)
 

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stiff. arrows. charts don't tell what is happening in your hands at your place.
the reason they might be good at 10 yards and dive at 20 is they are porpoising. at 10 yards they've not started misbehaving yet. at 20 they are a wild child.
.400s are way stiff for anything 30-ish pounds.
 
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