[Sid]

People have been saying that having a back wall to your bow is like having a draw check and delivers consistant arrow speed.

Id like to put forward a couple of bits of thinking for people to mull over.

Point 1
Firstly. if a bow climbs by a silly 7lbs in that last inch, than means a 1/4" variation in draw length would mean the draw weight could vary by 1.75lbs
if on the other hand the bow pulls 2lbs in that last inch, then well... thats only 0.5lbs gained

which one is going to deliver more consistant arrow speed.

second thought is:
if you have one bow that grows in poundage by 2.2lbs then 2.3lbs then 2.4lbs
and a second bow that changes at 1.4lbs 1.6lbs and 1.9lbs.
which one are you going to notice a change in inch by inch of draw more on?

third thought.

if the average bow grows in each inch 3lbs. then +0.1lbs on that will be stacky. and -0.1lbs on that will feel smooth.
Check out the differences in W&W limbs vs Samick limbs VS Hoyt limbs (really not much. but people can feel the difference)

Then you have a second round of bows that runs at 2lbs in that last inch. then you end up with the 0.1lbs more bows and the -0.1lbs bows that will feel stacky or smooth, in comparison to each other.

Then you can have the bows that repeat this but at 1lbs per inch +/-0.1lbs per inch.

So stack is only relivant to what your used to.
So why make a big deal over a bow being "too smooth"

What is too smooth?

 

[MAT]

It's not that for me Sid, it's I have no actual feeling of drawing, so I don't know where I'm at. I think you are looking at this from a target shooters point of view where you draw, anchor, aim, shoot. Hunting weight bows are generally not shot like that. I am now trying to draw to anchor, then expand past that as I release with my elbow moving back under back tension (which is still drawing). But since the bow feels so flat at anchor I get confused (which is probably the best term). I didn’t really understand it until I setup my chronograph and I had a much greater spread in speed with the Hex 5s than the EBFs.

I also don't think we humans get enough credit for being able to tell very small changes in draw weight. I'll go back to the original definition of smooth in the trad world of fiberglass bows. I know I can feel hysteresis, even though it’s relatively small. That’s why you can’t see this on a DFC. Besides, some are arguing that you pick a bow by feel, not by numbers or a DFC. What ”feel” are they talking about and how do you quantify it?

 

[Matt_Potter]

Mat

For a lot of us there is no difference between a "target" shot and a "hunting" shot. The speed of execution might vary but the shot is the same.

Only difference for me in a "hunting" set up is weight and the willingness to beat on it.

Matt


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Team Montana - we are coming for your quarters ;-)

 

[JParanee]

I do not understand the different feel comment for a hunting shot vs a target shot either

A shot is a shot

 

[ScottE]

I agree 100%

Mat

For a lot of us there is no difference between a "target" shot and a "hunting" shot. The speed of execution might vary but the shot is the same.

Only difference for me in a "hunting" set up is weight and the willingness to beat on it.

Matt

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Team Montana - we are coming for your quarters ;-)

 

[Sid]

MAT. Sounds like your pulling with your arms and not settling onto propper back tension.
but thats just a internet diagnosis rather than actually seeing you shoot.

 

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Back Wall = Stack

Stack will load up unnecessary draw weight at the end of the draw, which will lead to creeping and poor shooting. Don't matter if you are hunting, shooting targets, or whatever.

 

[13033]

Sid,

Agreed.

Did some calculations with a model of a linear bow, 57#@ 28 inches (19 inch power stroke).

This gives a constant gain of 3#/inch.

Say, draw to 27 1/2 instead of 28.

First case: STORED KE = ((57/2) *19)/12 = 45.125 foot pounds.

Second case: Stored Energy = ((55.5/2) * 18.5)/12 = 42.78 foot pounds

Scenario 2 gives 97% stored energy of scenario 1.

When extrapolated into actual arrow drop, for every 10 inches of drop in scenario 2, the arrow drop in scenario 1 would be 9.4 inches (.97*.97) * 10.

In the case of your bows, where the draw weight drops off significantly as the draw length is approached, the difference would be much less significant.

To me, you can't have a bow that is "too smooth"

 

[Sid]

Sid,

Agreed.

Did some calculations with a model of a linear bow, 57#@ 28 inches (19 inch power stroke).

This gives a constant gain of 3#/inch.

Say, draw to 27 1/2 instead of 28.

First case: STORED KE = ((57/2) *19)/12 = 45.125 foot pounds.

Second case: Stored Energy = ((55.5/2) * 18.5)/12 = 42.78 foot pounds

Scenario 2 gives 97% stored energy of scenario 1.

When extrapolated into actual arrow drop, for every 10 inches of drop in scenario 2, the arrow drop in scenario 1 would be 9.4 inches (.97*.97) * 10.

In the case of your bows, where the draw weight drops off significantly as the draw length is approached, the difference would be much less significant.

To me, you can't have a bow that is "too smooth"

Just for clarity... nothing else. our bows dont reduce in weight at full draw.
but the rate of climb definatly isnt what you think it should be.
1lbs not 2.5lbs. for a 55lbs bow at 28"

 

[13033]

Perhaps my wording wasn't as good as it should be.

That is aexactly what I meant. Same peak draw weight but rate of climb drops off, therefore difference in draw length (at or near peak weight) is less significant in determining the stored KE ..

 

[Sid]

Hunting bows from tree stands. give the worst case sceanario of torso rotation.
so perfect form from your back yard tune when you can get a right angle is all well said and done, but when you have to lean out your tree stand at 45 deg. you dam near sure your form will collapse and your draw will shorten.

in this case, a smooth bow will not only punish you less, but also play less on your mind on that first and only COLD draw. if the bow comes back sweet as a nut opposed to having to haul that last inch against your jacket, body posture, and cold muscles. your more likely to get full expansion, with more accuracy and penetration is the bow comes back easy, vs one that stacks.

 

[13033]

As they say in French "VOILA!"

 

[JParanee]

Mat

If you have the time please post up a video of you shooting

I am curious as well

 

[kenn1320]

I shot a mathews genesis a couple weekends ago with my kids at the club. I was very inconsistent, even at close range. A woman shot the same bow and wow, one hand pull of 3 arrows. Guess my point is, for some the smooth almost no change in draw weight can be a negative, till your used to it. For others it can be helpful right from the start. I haven't shot Sids hex 5-6 limbs, so I don't know how they would affect me. Looking at the numbers, it should be a favorable experience with several benefits as mentioned by others.