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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The open carry group was there. Several ak 47. One idiot was carrying 9# of M1 Grande.

I have my CC and was since we parked well out in the lonely, run down part of town. Now it occurred to me if Debbie and I were on the way back to the car and did not know the open carry people were demonstrating....i would not have felt very comfortable with a guy carrying an AK 47 on the same street with Debbie and me.

To make matters worse (IMO) the group was all pimple faced skinny immature looking youngsters. I did not see one that I would have wanted to have my back..... or turned my back on.

Open carry is gonna get some people killed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
They did have six well sized VERY capable looking police around them at ever point of the compass.

Just think if you were walking into the area and saw a young fellow carrying an AK 47 walking toward the mass of people. What would you think? this is just the worst idea ever.

These guys are not smart. Just in it for the show..... which is THE worst reason for carrying a weapon.
 

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Rusty, I whole heartedly agree with your summation of that situation, but to me what you saw was an extreme example of an open carry. I agree with what Bow said too, but now, let's look at it from another angle.

Oklahoma has had concealed carry for several years now. In fairly recent history, the voters approved open carry. Now look at this very closely. The original law specified that the gun had to be COMPLETELY concealed, or you could be arrested for carrying firearm. OK, now let's say that I have my subcompact Sig concealed in the back pocket of my jeans. I bend over, and the very tip of the grip is exposed. If a law enforcement officer saw me, then I could be arrested. Nevermind that I have a license, no criminal record, no speeding or jaywalking tickets. I'm still in violation of the law. Now with open carry, that situation would be a moot point. I think that was what the legislature in Oklahoma was trying to correct. When the change in the law was proposed, there was a public outcry, in the media of course, that Oklahoma would return to the ways of the old west. Not so. I have NEVER seen ANYONE openly carrying a gun in our state, unless they were heading to a gun store, the range, or in the field.

I think that most people have enough sense not to try to push the limits. Apparently in your case, you saw the few with no sense. Quite frankly, I had rather KNOW that a person is armed, rather than not know. At least I can keep an eye on them like you did. Many years ago, in Arizona, which has had open carry for years, I stopped at a store and saw a guy dressed as an early day cowboy. He had an old gunfighter type holster on with a Colt 45 peacemaker in it. I thought that maybe they were filming a movie nearby. When he left the store, I asked the clerk about him. Her reply was oh, we have open carry here in Arizona. I said really? He's not an actor? She said nope, that's the law here. I must say that I was a bit unnerved, but I never saw another person open carrying that trip, nor several trips to that state since.

I have no problem with open or concealed carry, unless people get stupid about it, and yes, if they are openly carrying to make a political statement, then yes, I'm gonna keep an eye on them. And I agree, someone could get shot.
 

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Spearhead
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Rusty
That would be scary to say the least with everything that's going on here in the us
Then again I see a pimple faced young kid and he's in military uniform.
I'm getting old
I know the type your speaking of tho

Head up north (wy) it's legal to have conceal and cary without a permit, levels the playing field.

Chad
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I do see what you mean. Here is the thing.... when do you see policemen openly carry a .223? when the stuff has hit the fan. If I knew I was going to a gun fight, the first gun I would grab would be my FN 7.65. Anywhere from CQB to 600 yds I don't think I will miss.

I don't see that as a defensive weapon used in response to a threat. That is a weapon used when you intend to kill people

If the three gun matches are any indicator, I know three or four guys that together could stack bodies up pretty quickly. I bet they could go, thru a fair sized town in a few hours.

Just not a good idea
 

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finger shooter
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The open carry group was there. Several ak 47. One idiot was carrying 9# of M1 Grande.

I have my CC and was since we parked well out in the lonely, run down part of town. Now it occurred to me if Debbie and I were on the way back to the car and did not know the open carry people were demonstrating....i would not have felt very comfortable with a guy carrying an AK 47 on the same street with Debbie and me.

To make matters worse (IMO) the group was all pimple faced skinny immature looking youngsters. I did not see one that I would have wanted to have my back..... or turned my back on.

Open carry is gonna get some people killed.
Well Rusty, I have been fortunate enough to have some skinny pimply faced young men and women who HAD MY BACK in places like Iraq and Afghanistan carrying M4's and 9 MM's and I was very fortunate to have them.

AS far as open carry, the great State I live in is an open carry state and because of that there have been two recent events where idiots who tried to do mass shootings that were stopped by a person who was exercising his right to carry his weapon, and Thank God for those people who stopped the massacres promptly. Matter of fact I was with my family at a restaurant recently (my 45 was being carried concealed at this time) and a man walked in with his 44 hanging from his side. I shook his hand and said thank you for being willing to protect us if needed.
 

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Barbarian Tyrant
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Yeah, the open carry folks here in Michigan are the young tacticool guys for the most part I've found. Open carry at an art show/festival up here would not be cool. No offense to the brave kids who have served.

We have a good concealed carry law and if a gun prints or openly shows while bending over or scratching your butt, it's not illegal. Really, a good common sense law.

We of course can not "brandish" a weapon without reason. If one were carrying an AK or AR it might be hard to not point the barrel at someone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Well Rusty, I have been fortunate enough to have some skinny pimply faced young men and women who HAD MY BACK in places like Iraq and Afghanistan carrying M4's and 9 MM's and I was very fortunate to have them.

AS far as open carry, the great State I live in is an open carry state and because of that there have been two recent events where idiots who tried to do mass shootings that were stopped by a person who was exercising his right to carry his weapon, and Thank God for those people who stopped the massacres promptly. Matter of fact I was with my family at a restaurant recently (my 45 was being carried concealed at this time) and a man walked in with his 44 hanging from his side. I shook his hand and said thank you for being willing to protect us if needed.
Yes, but the young guys/gals that had your back had the training and discipline necessary to full fill the task. I'd bet my last $$$ none of the open carry group I saw came thru the military or police training. This group looked like all their "skills"??? Came from computer games.

I do not think any responsible, clear thinking civilian would carry a technical weapon to a festival where 30,000 people were crammed into 6 blocks of main street fort worth. From their body language the police escort did not think much of the idea either.

The body language, posturing, demeanor and dress came right out of computer games including the 14" Hari Kari Japanese knife one had in his belt complimenting his ninja head band. Made me laugh. That is just the guy I'd want to partner within a fight. :)
 

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washington state does have pretty good laws on open and concealed carry, but, you have to also be aware of some laws pertaining to music festivals, unlicensed carry of a loaded gun in a vehicle, and exposing a weapon to view in an intimidating manner.
when i carry a firearm i do not carry openly except when doing work for the sheriffs dept.. thats a personal preference. frankly, when i go into a place that serves alcohol and see a person that is overtly armed i leave. don't need to eat there. carrying a loaded rifle of any kind in a public setting is something i have not seen done in our area. i do know that would cause the person to be stopped and questioned by law enforcement in every town in the valley.
 

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I'm not too good with people carrying around rifles JUST to say I can. I am all for people carrying a sidearm in the open if they choose but in my years of training and tactics I am better with people not knowing if I am carrying or not.

Even as a Police Officer I always carried concealed and had a badge and ID with me.

Here is the deal; IF A BAD GUY HAS BAD INTENTIONS? AND HE SEE'S A GUN ON MY SIDE,,,,,,,GUESS WHO HE/SHE WILL KILL FIRST? DAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! LOL:p
 

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I agree with the sentiment, but the execution is way off. The concept of an open carry demonstration is to show how it benefits society, not as a shock tactic.

However in an actual tactical sense there are two approaches to consider:
#1: Have so much capability in evidence that someone would NEVER attempt to use force against you. From a practical standpoint there just isn't a single-person deployable weapon that offers enough deterrance to prevent a motivated attacker from using force.

#2: Have no apparent capability so that when it does get used it comes as a complete surprise. This is realistically the only viable option unless you plan on trading in your truck for an APC, which given the price of fuel these days doesn't seem like a good choice.

-Grant
 

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good point, sam! but in my case i have to follow the rules of the office. you would think livestock theft would be a non-threat thing to work on but thats not always the case. it has been weird for years now though everywhere. years ago forest rangers had to start being trained and start carrying a weapon because of armed threats at campgrounds etc. an fco that i've known for years thought that it was the end of the world as he knew it when that happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
As you can tell, I have not made my mind on open carry. I guess I have read too many Zane Gray, Louis Lamour novels. If a guy is carrying a gun it goes off before chapter 4.

Sam does make an excellent point. One we use in IDPA matches, technical priority. In the advanced pistol course I have taken, it was always a training point.

With just cause, I shot and killed my step farther when I was 16. Grand jury no billed me. It is not an experience I recommend nor one to take on wearing a ninja head band and a 14" knife. You pull that trigger once and you enter into a special purgatory. The prosecutor digs into your past with a fine tooth comb.
 

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Yep some dam fools just push the envelope on any right whether it is the right thing to do or not. Being a dipstick just gives the anti's more ammo to take pictures and show practical people how stupid some people are that own guns. I am radically for the second amendment but in the sense of responsibility and prudence we all owe society.

PETA is another example of being dam fools and we as responsible gun owners do not want or need a bunch of dam fools running around exhibiting the same stupid militant behavior as PETA to represent those of us who are responsible gun owners in America.;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Amen.

I was having lunch the Dixie Restaurant on Lancaster. From the back meeting room a shout was heard. "help help He has a gun!". My self and two other gentlemen kick back our chairs moving shirts and jackets back out of the way. my two partners went to the closet door to them and I went to the other. Only had two exist to the room. When I checked the room (using IDPA cover technique), I saw four year old playing stickup with a plastic space gun and the waitress. I was proud to see that neither of my partners had drawn their guns yet and used the door jams as cover also.

We became friends. They were run and gun members of another organization. If you are going to carry a weapon, you need to train with disciplined rules and people who know more than you do, about what you are doing. The situation was exactly the same as many IDPA stages. What I had done 100's of times kicked in immediately. Cover (you are not going to be any help if you are shot) Identify threat (you don't want to kill every one in the room).

IMO. CC is the best for me
 

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finger shooter
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Rusty I agree with most everything said here, and I see no reason to carry weapons like an AR to a festival just to prove a point. That proving a point leads to bad things, and more letters to congressman to repeal our rights. I do open carry quite a bit, my 44 or 45 is on my side on just about every hike I take. I also have a CPL, and I carry concealed everywhere its legal. Larry, the points you make are 100% point on about our laws in our State regarding open carry... I have been asked why I carry my sidearm when hiking here in the cascades, well there are a couple animals that are dangerous out here.. one is a mountain lion and the other is the pot growers....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ren, i think ever 18 yr old boy or girl should spend two yrs in military service to the USA military. if you will give me that then i'll give you open carry LOL
 

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i agree with rusty too, maybe because by the time i was 18 i had served in the korean conflict, been kicked out of the army for lying about my age, was recruited by the firm at 17 and was in thailand. and you know what? never hurt me a bit! gave me survival skills that saved my life many times.
 
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