Arrow weight vs. speed

766 Views 25 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Grizz66, 10 d ago

goinghunting1

Discussion Starter · 19 d ago (Edited)

I saw the pounds vs. speed thread and coming from a compound a little over a year ago there are some rough estimates that are thrown out like for every pound increase of DW is about 2.3fps all else being the same, that DL increase of 1 inch adds about 10fps and for every 4-5 grains dropped in arrow weight adds 1fps.

I haven't found anything like these generalities from compounds mentioned for recurves. Are there any and if so what are they? I would imagine arrow weight has the greatest effect on speed and curious what others have found?

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c_m_shooter

· #2 · 19 d ago

I think most of us don't care about speed much, but will build for a usefull point on distance.

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stevelong

· #3 · 19 d ago

It gets all twisted.....to the point of not being able to use as a reliable statement.
I mean, the amounts of all the changes on a 27 pound bow will be significantly different than they will for a 62 pound bow.....since it's all about percentages.
I think.

Reactions: 1

goinghunting1

Discussion Starter · #4 · 19 d ago

c_m_shooter said:
I think most of us don't care about speed much, but will build for a usefull point on distance.

This is actually what I am trying to figure out right now. I was really lucky with my first hunting recurve. With It I am shooting an EXE Scream 21" riser matched with 40lb Uukha Gobi limbs shooting uncut 32" GT Hunter shafts, 175gr tips with a 50 grain insert and 4x3" feathers for a TAW of 549 grains and 168 fps through my chrono. It shoots at my 30 1/4" DL a 20 yard point on with a 1/3" fixed crawl. I then hold at the bottom of the chest for a 15 yard deer and the top of the back for 25 yards. Perfect IMO for hunting.

I am now setting up a dedicated barebow set up with a Hoyt Xceed 25" riser and the Gobi Limbs. I ordered Easton 6.5 shafts and be cause 3 Rivers had a typo in the length I was expecting 31.5' long arrows but they were only 30.5" I was forced to shoot a my 175 grain tips when I thought I would have been good at the expected length and now they were too stiff and needed the heavier tip to shoot straight. So instead of dropping 150-175 grains taw I only dropped 100 grains and the longer bow with my fingers less than 1/4" below the nock has a 23 yard PO for a bow that is drawing 2 pounds lighter with a 3/4" higher brace height.

I am trying to set up an arrow primarily for 3D and I want to try field. Ironically my hunting arrows will give me a 20 yard PO with my fingers touching the nock so I am good for indoor.

Looking forward to suggestions. Thanks in advance!

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Supraspinatus

· #5 · 19 d ago

I use the 3Rivers to estimate speed of different setups. It's accurate enough for comparing setups, but I would not bank on the calculator being in agreement with your chrono.

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goinghunting1

Discussion Starter · #6 · 19 d ago

Supraspinatus said:
I use the 3Rivers to estimate speed of different setups. It's accurate enough for comparing setups, but I would not bank on the calculator being in agreement with your chrono.

I am familiar with their calculator but I have never seen anything about ILF and Uukha limbs.

c_m_shooter

· #7 · 19 d ago

For field, just pick a .166 arrow in your price range. Vaps, VXT, Intrepids, or Advance are all great.

For 3d I am using aluminum that match the weight of my woods so it is easier to shoot a couple classes a day.

Supraspinatus

· #8 · 19 d ago

goinghunting1 said:
I am familiar with their calculator but I have never seen anything about ILF and Uukha limbs.

Just pick generic recurve, that seems to be representative of typical ILF wood/glass limbs. You can then add about 3-4 pounds for Uukha S-curve limbs.

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Where's Bruce?

· #9 · 16 d ago

When building arrows I use OT2 software, so far so good. https://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/index.html

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Tracker1

· #10 · 16 d ago

I hear people say speed doesn’t matter but I disagree, for hunting applications, especially with lower poundage hunting bows speed matters. Speed is a number along with arrow weight to tell you what you have. I think that becomes important when deciding my effective range, what broad head to use, and what the bow’s capabilities are as far as shot angles goes.

Where's Bruce?

· #11 · 16 d ago

Speed & weight are equally important as both effect your KE. You need sufficient KE to kill your target animal effectively. Like many things, it boils down to simple math.

15-25 ft-lbs-Small Game
25-41 ft-lbs-Medium Game
42-65 ft-lbs-Large Game
65-80 ft-lbs-Toughest Game

Tracker1

· #12 · 16 d ago

Where's Bruce? said:
Speed & weight are equally important as both effect your KE. You need sufficient KE to kill your target animal effectively. Like many things, it boils down to simple math.

15-25 ft-lbs-Small Game
25-41 ft-lbs-Medium Game
42-65 ft-lbs-Large Game
65-80 ft-lbs-Toughest Game

Those numbers would keep me from hunting big Ohio deer with my rig, yet at 30ft-lbs my Magnus Stingers blow right through broadside shots.

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Where's Bruce?

· #13 · 16 d ago

I think the recommendations allow for striking bone. When hunting bison I built 777gr arrows which broke a rib on the far side.

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Tracker1

· #14 · 16 d ago

Where's Bruce? said:
I think the recommendations allow for striking bone. When hunting bison I built 777gr arrows which broke a rib on the far side.

I kind of figured that👍.

Remote

· #15 · 16 d ago

Hit far and flat is what I want, speed's just a function of that. For hunting though, I'll trade speed for quietness. All about finding that sweet spot.

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Hank D Thoreau

· #16 · 15 d ago

Compound may be more speed focused since there are speed limits set by some of the competitive organizations.

Many shooters want to get as close to the maximum speed as possible.

I did a series of tests using a shooting machine. I touched on the issue of arrow weight. The problem is that it is not one number for all bows, just like it not one number for compounds.

For my bow it I got 1.8 ftp increase for every 10 grain reduction in arrow weight.

I also have draw length, gpp, etc. in the experiments below.

(29) Expanded test procedure using a shooting machine: Border XP10 Evolution | Trad Talk Forums

(29) Affects of draw length and arrow weight on speed and efficiency: Border XP10 | Trad Talk Forums
Type of title. It should say Effect.

(29) Grains/Inch: What does it really mean and do? Bow test results. | Trad Talk Forums
Typo in title. It should say Grains/Pound.

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Where's Bruce?

· #17 · 15 d ago

Hank D Thoreau said:
Compound may be more speed focused since there are speed limits set by some of the competitive organizations.

Many shooters want to get as close to the maximum speed as possible.

I did a series of tests using a shooting machine. I touched on the issue of arrow weight. The problem is that it is not one number for all bows, just like it not one number for compounds.

For my bow it I got 1.8 ftp increase for every 10 grain reduction in arrow weight.

I also have draw length, gpp, etc. in the experiments below.

(29) Expanded test procedure using a shooting machine: Border XP10 Evolution | Trad Talk Forums

(29) Affects of draw length and arrow weight on speed and efficiency: Border XP10 | Trad Talk Forums
Type of title. It should say Effect.

(29) Grains/Inch: What does it really mean and do? Bow test results. | Trad Talk Forums
Typo in title. It should say Grains/Pound.

I think most of us want to get as close to the game as possible.

It's why we hunt trad.

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Beendare

· #18 · 14 d ago

Sid’s comment- RIP- (on Hanks link to the thread from Feb2015) on limb construction explains why GPP cannot be a constant

Hank D Thoreau

· #19 · 14 d ago

Where's Bruce? said:
I think most of us want to get as close to the game as possible. It's why we hunt trad.

On the traditional side you have a couple of viewpoints, there are speed chasers, which helps with unknown distances, and there are folks that are looking for the best aiming points.

The latter involves shooting the speed that provides the best aiming points, rather than the fastest speed.

As a target shooter, I have lived in both camps. When I was shooting FITA target (90, 70,50, and 30 meters) I was looking for the fastest speed, since I needed it to get good aiming points and the long distances. For field I have a much slower bow since my fast bow did not do very well at short distances and I only needed to shoot out to 50 meters.

A lot depends on the aiming method you use.

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goinghunting1

Discussion Starter · #20 · 11 d ago (Edited)

Where's Bruce? said:
Speed & weight are equally important as both effect your KE. You need sufficient KE to kill your target animal effectively. Like many things, it boils down to simple math.

15-25 ft-lbs-Small Game
25-41 ft-lbs-Medium Game
42-65 ft-lbs-Large Game
65-80 ft-lbs-Toughest Game

Take it for what you want but using your numbers above I would venture a bet that less than 10% shooting trad are getting 42ft lbs. of kinetic energy and frankly probably closer to 5%.

This is based upon the results of a thread I put out last year asking about elk set ups and I found my ILF with Uukha Gobi limbs at 40 lbs was shooting an arrow weighing 545 grains faster than most shot with a similar arrow weight at 55lbs draw for elk.

My set up is shooting almost 14gpp at 168 fps and virtually everyone got hung up on my draw weight as being too light. When they posted their specs their bow in most cases was shooting slower while drawing significantly more weight.

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