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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got myself a Grozer Biocomposite Scythian bow last month. Beautiful bow with a horn belly and sinew backing. Shot beautifully, smooth draw and shock free. 45#@28". Then just last week it broke. I was at full draw when I heard a cracking sound and the next thing I new the top limb had snapped (near the tiller), with only a slim layer of what looks to be fiber keeping it attached to the rest of the bow.

Anyway, I took a few pictures and sent it to Grozer and asked them if they can have it replaced. They said they'd replace it but then said that I must have done something wrong for the bow to break so bad, and that they needed to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong before they sent a replacement. I thought, fair enough.

They said I must have overdrawn the bow past it's specified max 32" draw. I said I only had a 31" draw (I specifically got this bow because it mentioned it can handle up to 32"). They still insisted I must have drawn in past 32", to which I said my arrows are 32" long, for me to draw past 32" means I'll end up shooting my hand.

Anyway, we email back and forth, every time they ask me questions to figure out what else I did wrong. They asked if I was shooting outside and maybe it was too cold (I said we were shooting indoors at room temperature). I sent them a video of me shooting another bow so they can check my form.

Throughout this they offered to send me different kinds of bows as replacements, other bow styles and different materials. I declined because I specifically wanted their biocomposite scythian, had saved up months for it in fact and have been eyeing it for more than a year. I didn't want to have spent that money on a bow I didn't exactly want. So they told me to just message them back either end of Feb or March, keep an eye on their page for when they have stock, and then tell them which one I want. They advised me to only get a bow 35#-40# which could better handle my supposedly "longer draw length".

Now throughout all our emails I had tried to be as polite and helpful as possible. Providing details and even a video of myself to help understand what happened. But now I just got pissed off. Regardless of how many times I tell them my draw length is 31" (actually it's 30" and 2/3), they keep insinuating that I draw past 32". Plus all my bows are 45#-50#, and now they're saying I should just get 35#-40#. And on top of it all, they're asking me to watch their page for when they have stock, then email them which one I'd want. Wouldn't it be more practical for them to message me instead when they have stock instead of me watching their page?

Anyway, I'm irritated now and write a more sternly worded email and just asked for a refund. That was a few days ago, they haven't replied since. Normally they'll reply within a day.


So I guess after all that rant, all I really want to ask is:

1. Have any of you had experience with Grozer bows breaking?
2. Have any of you had bad experiences coordinating with Grozer?
3. If they don't reply in the next few days, what would you do if you were in my position?
 

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I agree they should contact you when they have one done just like the one you ordered and Id expect it to be a priority for them. However regardless of your form or dl, it sounds like they are saying giving you another one will result in the same thing, so they are suggesting a lower draw weight. That seems fair to me, better then another broken bow. If you dont want a lower draw weight, then sounds like the model you ordered isnt right for you, and a refund should be an option.
Good luck, be polite and if they are a stand up company, they will treat you fairly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I agree they should contact you when they have one done just like the one you ordered and Id expect it to be a priority for them. However regardless of your form or dl, it sounds like they are saying giving you another one will result in the same thing, so they are suggesting a lower draw weight. That seems fair to me, better then another broken bow. If you dont want a lower draw weight, then sounds like the model you ordered isnt right for you, and a refund should be an option.
Good luck, be polite and if they are a stand up company, they will treat you fairly.
Yeah, I wish they'd just come out and say that the bow model doesn't work for me. I think it's obvious that they're hesitant to give me the exact same bow for fear it would break again, which is why they're suggesting either a different bow or a lower draw weight. And I wish they'd just come out and say it like that instead of trying to keep blaming me. Because then I'd just go for a refund since I don't feel like spending $400 for a bow that isn't exactly what I wanted and might end up not using much.
 

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be firm, be polite, and be consistent.
It's tough to do, sometimes, heck ALL the time, it's tough, but it works.
 
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I got myself a Grozer Biocomposite Scythian bow last month. Beautiful bow with a horn belly and sinew backing. Shot beautifully, smooth draw and shock free. 45#@28". Then just last week it broke. I was at full draw when I heard a cracking sound and the next thing I new the top limb had snapped (near the tiller), with only a slim layer of what looks to be fiber keeping it attached to the rest of the bow.
I'm confused. Grozer's website states that the maximum draw length on the Biocomposite Scythian is 30".

http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_b.htm

BIOCOMPOSITE LAMINATED SCYTHIAN BOW

total length: 53"
length between siyahs: 43 3/4"
length strung: 45 1/4"
draw weight: 30-65#
max. draw length: 30"
brace height: 5 3/4"
price: 315 EUR


Is there a misunderstanding somewhere or did they change it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm confused. Grozer's website states that the maximum draw length on the Biocomposite Scythian is 30".

http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_b.htm

BIOCOMPOSITE LAMINATED SCYTHIAN BOW

total length: 53"
length between siyahs: 43 3/4"
length strung: 45 1/4"
draw weight: 30-65#
max. draw length: 30"
brace height: 5 3/4"
price: 315 EUR


Is there a misunderstanding somewhere or did they change it?
LoL. They changed it!! OMG!!! I'm 100% sure it used to say 32" because I spent a whole year saving up and researching this bow. If you look at the other Scythian models they're all 32" max.

Here's one of their emails to me when I was originally ordering:

"We measure the bows at 28" and the max draw length is 32".
The scythian bow's price is 315 euro. And it takes a few months when this bow will be ready.
So if you want to buy this bow, please confirm this order with the type of the bow, the poundage, and your full name and address again.
Thank you
Szandra
Üdvözlettel:
Szandra
Grózer Csaba asszisztense"

Ugh. Now I'm even more irritated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It totally said 32"! I was trying to buy that very bow! And have been looking at Grozer for months for them to put up a biocomposite scythian.
Marco
Thanks for that Marco. Glad to know I wasn't just hallucinating. For what it's worth, it was a beautiful bow and worked wonderfully... just wish it hadn't broke. They said the next stock will be in end of Feb. or early March.

That said, it irritates me that they changed their advertised max draw length because I feel like this happened directly in relation to my issue. Of course, it's completely understandable that they realized their bow can't handle a draw length over 30" because of my experience and changed their advertising for future customers. I just wish they'd tell me that instead of blaming me for doing something wrong. And just agree to give me my money back. No harm, no foul.
 

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I've had a similair experience with a Kaya Black Shadow bow.
Measured 48" and 40#@31 and max. draw 31", it showed cracks in the upper carbon limb.
I realized this after two months, but it could have happened before that.
Even though my bow was replaced with another bow no questions asked, I started questioning the max draw lenght of these types of bows.
I thought that for a short bow as the Black Shadow is, 31 inch is a lot, maybe too much.
I had it replaced with a KTB, measured 40#@31, 53" long and factory claimed max. draw 33".
I don't dare draw that far with it as I think it's too much of a strain for this bow.

To sum it up, I don't trust the max. draw of a short bow like a Korean or Scythian bow.
It could be bad luck in either or both cases, a fault in the bow, or whatever... but I keep at least one inch away from the factory specs.
 

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Had to register to post on this (first post, HI!)

I bought a Grozer Biocomp Scythian (62# @ 28") and it got a core split in the upper limb in the bend just above the grip within a month of use, at least that's when I noticed it. I still shoot it today, just kinda waiting til it explodes or something because: it really is a beautiful bow (all the Biocomps are).

I e-mailed Grozer (Szandra) about it, sent pics, and they just said to pick any bow from the shop (not an Extra III Composite) for a warranty replacement, and to let them know which one. For me, the whole warranty replacement process was less hassle than sending money via Western Union.

I warrantied up for a Turkish Biocomposite. After doing some research, and talking to my friend, it seems the very short, highly-recurved design of the Scythian just isn't suitable being built with anything other than true traditional materials (horn, wood, fish-bladder glue, and sinew layers) instead of modern glue (and maybe a layer of fiberglass?). The design of the Scythian style bow is very demanding on the limbs, and perhaps maybe modern materials just handle the stress of the design. Point is: I had a similar issue.

Anyhow, it really is a beautiful bow, and a tragedy yours broke like that. I'm also fairly certain when I ordered mine (Dec 2015) I read maximum draw @ 29" on the Biocomposite version specifically, which I'd agree with.

My Turkish Biocomposite is performing very well, and can draw to 33" comfortably; I'm yet to max out the draw length (even while trying), and yet to feel any stacking. I'd highly recommend the Turkish Biocomp model if you're open to it.

Also: I think I saw this on a Facebook group :)
 

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A Scythian bow with almost 31" draw is an accident waiting to happen.
The Scythian design is suitable for a max. 29". That makes sense. The siyahs are almost non-existant. A Korean bow is probably good for 31" max, but better 30".
For longer draws there is a longer 52" model.
The Scythian design seems to be problematic as even a hybrid Saluki bow of someone I know showed problems and needed repairs. And that bow was only drawn to 28".
I think these super short siyahs create the problem as there is less bending in the limbs but a lot more shear.
The Grozer Assyrian has goo reviews and is probably better for a longer draw.
 

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Does that apply to all short eared siyah's ? I ask because my Ming Moon 5 has very short siyah's and that's build to be drawn to 32" measured from the throat of the grip which equals about 34" by conventional method. And mine are the short limbs.
 

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Does that apply to all short eared siyah's ? I ask because my Ming Moon 5 has very short siyah's and that's build to be drawn to 32" measured from the throat of the grip which equals about 34" by conventional method. And mine are the short limbs.
Pete -

Ming Moon 5 (明月五)

Short Limbs
Max draw length (from belly): 32"
Length of braced bow: 57.5" (146 cm)
Min warrantied arrow mass: 9.0 grains-per-pound
Price (limbs only): $350 (up to 60# @ 32"), $385 (65--70# @ 32")
Price (with riser): $580 (up to 60# @ 32"), $615 (65--70# @ 32")

Long Limbs
Max draw length (from belly): 33"
Length of braced bow: 59.9" (152 cm)
Min warrantied arrow mass: 9.0 grains-per-pound
Price (limbs only): $370 (up to 60# @ 33"), $405 (65--70# @ 33")
Price (with riser): $600 (up to 60# @ 33"), $635 (65--70# @ 33")

Riser
Material: Hard aluminum alloy
Process: CNC machining
Weight: 22 ounces (623 grams)
Price: $230

From here : http://www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/ming.html

Regards,

John
 
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Does that apply to all short eared siyah's ? I ask because my Ming Moon 5 has very short siyah's and that's build to be drawn to 32" measured from the throat of the grip which equals about 34" by conventional method. And mine are the short limbs.
Given how the Scythian Biocomp is 45" end-to-end (strung) and of different construction and materials; I'd say your Ming Moon 5 is in a whole different category, and safe from any design issues with the Scythian, short or long siyahs.

Lets keep in mind the Scythian is 45" braced and specifically doesn't have Siyahs (it's my understanding the term annotates hard inflexible tips joined to the limbs), rather the tips are flexible like any modern recurve. A better comparison would be a modern Bear Grizzly recurve made to 45" braced length.
 
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